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Why assume we were all unemployable back home?
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think everyone is unemployable, and I've made a point of having my friend translate my CV into Korean. The last time my coteacher pulled the "I'm more experienced than you" silliness, I nodded so she could save face, then an hour later showed her my resume, pretending it had nothing to do with the situation. I asked her if she'd check the grammar and spelling for me. She doesn't pull that sh*te anymore.

It doesn't get to me. I was just curious if there was truth to it in the majority of cases.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SL8R wrote:


I think it is just because of what they read and hear in their own media and because a great number of Korean men would never leave Korea if they could get what they see as a 'good' job. That is the typical nine to five, 50 hours a week salaryman type job with a reasonable company.


I think this is the reason in a nutshell. It does not conform with their idea of being an adult, so there must be some defect. Of course, not all Koreans feel this way. I have had Korean friends confide that they wished they had the freedom to do what we do. Social traditions and customs are heavy chains to break. That is pretty much universal. Hell, the OP is a even a little sensitive as to how those from another society view her.
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sector7G wrote:
SL8R wrote:


I think it is just because of what they read and hear in their own media and because a great number of Korean men would never leave Korea if they could get what they see as a 'good' job. That is the typical nine to five, 50 hours a week salaryman type job with a reasonable company.


I think this is the reason in a nutshell. It does not conform with their idea of being an adult, so there must be some defect. Of course, not all Koreans feel this way. I have had Korean friends confide that they wished they had the freedom to do what we do. Social traditions and customs are heavy chains to break. That is pretty much universal. Hell, the OP is a even a little sensitive as to how those from another society view her.


I wasn't talking about the Koreans though. They can think what they want. I don't really care, as I know that many are misinformed, and it's hard to sway their general opinion. I was talking about the foreigners that like to use that as a knee-jerk insult.
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mc_jc



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, I get what you're saying now.

But think of it this way- right now, the employment prospects for someone graduating from a university in Korea is very dim at best. The reason is many senior positions are held onto until the person either dies or is forced out. The notches needed to promote someone are simply few.
If a person is laid off from a company, it could be weeks or months (and in some cases, years) before they find a suitable position that they feel matches or exceeds their previous employment.
Thats part of the bitter reality of the Korean job market.

Now look at the ESL field- the attrition rate is so high that many positions are open for the qualified person to fill. All a person needs is to match the qualifications the employer is looking for and they are hired- simple as that.

Despite what people say, the ESL field in Korea is a stable job market. Yes, it is a gamble in regards to receiving pay and benefits on time, but for every bad employer, there is a good one. And no matter if a person is fired or quits a certain job, there is always a position open for them somewhere else.
ESL teachers have a unique type of job security in Korea they Koreans don't have and many foreigners don't have back home.

And to say that foreigners are not employable back home is just a wild assumption.
I knew a guy who worked with me back when I was an ESL teacher in Mok-dong. He was a production assistant in California before he quit the business and came out to Korea to teach ESL. When we used to hang out, he would show me these photos of him with all these celebrities with whom he worked with on the sets of many movies.
Another person I knew was a woman who was a professor at Dartmouth who took a sabbatical to teach ESL in Korea.
Then there was a professor at one of the big universities in Seoul who also taught university courses online and made a killing doing it.

There are MANY reasons why people come to Korea to teach ESL, not necessarily because they have no job prospects.

Quote:
I was talking about the foreigners that like to use that as a knee-jerk insult.


Think of these foreigners this way;

They are-
~ Ignorant
~ Don't know any better
~ Misinformed
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mc_jc wrote:
OP, I get what you're saying now.

But think of it this way- right now, the employment prospects for someone graduating from a university in Korea is very dim at best. The reason is many senior positions are held onto until the person either dies or is forced out. The notches needed to promote someone are simply few.
If a person is laid off from a company, it could be weeks or months (and in some cases, years) before they find a suitable position that they feel matches or exceeds their previous employment.
Thats part of the bitter reality of the Korean job market.

Now look at the ESL field- the attrition rate is so high that many positions are open for the qualified person to fill. All a person needs is to match the qualifications the employer is looking for and they are hired- simple as that.

Despite what people say, the ESL field in Korea is a stable job market. Yes, it is a gamble in regards to receiving pay and benefits on time, but for every bad employer, there is a good one. And no matter if a person is fired or quits a certain job, there is always a position open for them somewhere else.
ESL teachers have a unique type of job security in Korea they Koreans don't have and many foreigners don't have back home.

And to say that foreigners are not employable back home is just a wild assumption.
I knew a guy who worked with me back when I was an ESL teacher in Mok-dong. He was a production assistant in California before he quit the business and came out to Korea to teach ESL. When we used to hang out, he would show me these photos of him with all these celebrities with whom he worked with on the sets of many movies.
Another person I knew was a woman who was a professor at Dartmouth who took a sabbatical to teach ESL in Korea.
Then there was a professor at one of the big universities in Seoul who also taught university courses online and made a killing doing it.

There are MANY reasons why people come to Korea to teach ESL, not necessarily because they have no job prospects.

Quote:
I was talking about the foreigners that like to use that as a knee-jerk insult.


Think of these foreigners this way;

They are-
~ Ignorant
~ Don't know any better
~ Misinformed


Agreed. I've got loads of gifts from celebs at one of my old jobs, an amazing CV, schooled in NYC, and therefore got dozens of offers within hours of applying. The point of this thread, though, was to inquire as to whether this was the norm (this being a bunch of layabouts doing this as a way to extend their vacation).

I'm not taking it seriously. This was just curiosity. I'm glad to hear that there are people of similar background, and that we're not all dirty hippies!
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roll-call of the foreigners who are here who were working a crappy job back home with minimal prospects? It seems that everyone here is some sort of former exec or bigshot so I just want to know who the fellow B or C-level talent is in these parts, that would be more of a story.

Say it loud and say it proud!
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Roll-call of the foreigners who are here who were working a crappy job back home with minimal prospects? It seems that everyone here is some sort of former exec or bigshot so I just want to know who the fellow B or C-level talent is in these parts, that would be more of a story.

Say it loud and say it proud!


But that would be a different thread.

Bigshot is stretching it.

Lots of us had good jobs, with decent prospects, but that hardly makes it A (or C. C-level usually means chief level. CEO, CFO, CIO, etc...) level. I think you mean D or F (school-grade-wise) level people, as many of us certainly weren't the editors-in-chief, presidents, or chairmen of the board. We were just career-minded people who were moving up in the world--not just kids straight out of uni looking to do some "Seoul searching."

There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that this post was directed at people who were doing well, and didn't come here to escape the dearth of job prospects.
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Roll-call of the foreigners who are here who were working a crappy job back home with minimal prospects? It seems that everyone here is some sort of former exec or bigshot so I just want to know who the fellow B or C-level talent is in these parts, that would be more of a story.

Say it loud and say it proud!


But that would be a different thread.

Bigshot is stretching it.

Lots of us had good jobs, with decent prospects, but that hardly makes it A (or C. C-level usually means chief level. CEO, CFO, CIO, etc...) level. I think you mean D or F (school-grade-wise) level people, as many of us certainly weren't the editors-in-chief, presidents, or chairmen of the board. We were just career-minded people who were moving up in the world--not just kids straight out of uni looking to do some "Seoul searching."

There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that this post was directed at people who were doing well, and didn't come here to escape the dearth of job prospects.
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Satchel Paige



Joined: 29 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC_Gal wrote:
Agreed. I've got loads of gifts from celebs at one of my old jobs, an amazing CV, schooled in NYC, and therefore got dozens of offers within hours of applying.


Sounds very impressive indeed. So why did you decide to move to Korea to teach elementary school?

PS I went to graduate school in NYC, and by the time I left I had developed the feeling that it was an overpriced, overrated shithole. To each his(her) own, though.
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satchel Paige wrote:
NYC_Gal wrote:
Agreed. I've got loads of gifts from celebs at one of my old jobs, an amazing CV, schooled in NYC, and therefore got dozens of offers within hours of applying.


Sounds very impressive indeed. So why did you decide to move to Korea to teach elementary school?

PS I went to graduate school in NYC, and by the time I left I had developed the feeling that it was an overpriced, overrated shithole. To each his(her) own, though.


I was bored. It really is that simple. Yes, my job was secure (most of my former coworkers are still there), but I wanted to try something new. When I go back in a few years, I can use the economy failing excuse, and nobody would doubt it as a legit reason Wink

Where in NYC? If you were a broke student, of course it seems overpriced. I managed to pay for an apartment with a roomate, whilst going to uni full time and working 35-45 hours per week. Later, I had a lovely break and went to grad school only part time, so was able to freelance more. One just needs to be a hard worker. Have you lived in London? Tokyo? This is the price of living in a big city. Remember: you get paid more in these cities.

As for sh*thole, it depends on the neighborhood in which you spent the majority of your time. Where are you from, originally, that you can judge it so?
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mc_jc



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it amazing that some people find it hard to believe that there are actually some who prefer to be in Korea for the change of pace instead of just coming here because they couldn't make ends meet back home.

There are some who do fall in that category, but to generalize that everyone is that way is a complete understatement. It is like how I generalize about Koreans being a certain way- I know not all are like the ones I mention here, but it is to prove a point that it is haphazard to make such blanket judgment calls.

This is MY story- I first came here in 1990 as a soldier in the US Army (considered a low-level job). PCSed from Korea and then ETSed from the Army in 1994- however, by then I had already obtained my BA from UMUC while attending classes at Cp. Casey. Went home and applied (then got approved) to Columbia's School of International and Public Affairs. Finished the program, but was not ready to enter the government sector yet, so I applied and got hired to teach ESL in Korea in 1997 (again- assumed to be a low-level position). Worked as a teacher from 1997 to 2003. In 2002, I started volunteering at the USO, where I got my basepass. During my time off from work, I went to Yongsan to apply for a position onbase. I got hired by the same agency I am now director of in 2003. I got promoted to my position in 2006.

Now if I weren't employable back home, how would I fair working for a US government job here?

Though I can't speak for all expats teaching here, but I believe a post-high school education does improve a person's job prospects, even in a sluggish economy.
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Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Roll-call of the foreigners who are here who were working a crappy job back home with minimal prospects? It seems that everyone here is some sort of former exec or bigshot so I just want to know who the fellow B or C-level talent is in these parts, that would be more of a story.

Say it loud and say it proud!


I never did anything particularly interesting before coming to Korea in terms of work; never found anything I really liked. Before coming here, I worked in a protein synthesis laboratory for quite a while, then I worked at a service captioning phone calls for the deaf for a shorter while. Certainly nothing one would consider a serious career.

So far teaching English is more interesting that what I've done so far. Not sure yet if I'll stick with it or trying something else, though my girlfriend would certainly prefer I settle down here. If I were to marry her I could probably make substantial money tutoring or opening a small language school. Self-employment seems like a lot of work, though.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Roll-call of the foreigners who are here who were working a crappy job back home with minimal prospects? It seems that everyone here is some sort of former exec or bigshot so I just want to know who the fellow B or C-level talent is in these parts, that would be more of a story.

Say it loud and say it proud!


I got a BA in history and graduated during the last recession. So yeah, I had great job prospects! The idea of moving back home after I graduated sounded like hell on earth, plus I had no clue what I wanted to do except go abroad, so hey, it worked out. Woo hoo.


And mc_jc, you went from SIPA to teaching English in Korea? Ha, wow... Are you sure you weren't ready for gov't work or just couldn't get it? Don't mean to be disrespectful, just a pain in the ass to get a gov't job. But sounds like you took the right path to get one once you were in Korea.
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cubanlord



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC_Gal wrote:

It wasn't just that. I see the whole "You couldn't get a job at home, that's why you're here" thing all the time, and it gets annoying.


I usually don't hear the statement you have mentioned. Mostly, I see it on these boards through people's stories, etc. However, should I ever hear it, I would take the following approach:

I'd smile and let that person assume they know it all while I quietly think to myself about the obscene amount of money I make here, the amount of paid vacation I get, the schedules I work, the wonderful people I work with, the free 2-bedroom apartment, the....you get the point. All the while, I just smile and walk away.

Remember, those that usually say something like that are bitter about something; misery loves company.
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NYC_Gal



Joined: 08 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubanlord wrote:
NYC_Gal wrote:

It wasn't just that. I see the whole "You couldn't get a job at home, that's why you're here" thing all the time, and it gets annoying.


I usually don't hear the statement you have mentioned. Mostly, I see it on these boards through people's stories, etc. However, should I ever hear it, I would take the following approach:

I'd smile and let that person assume they know it all while I quietly think to myself about the obscene amount of money I make here, the amount of paid vacation I get, the schedules I work, the wonderful people I work with, the free 2-bedroom apartment, the....you get the point. All the while, I just smile and walk away.

Remember, those that usually say something like that are bitter about something; misery loves company.


I certainly don't make an obscene amount of money here, but it's a much more leisurely lifestyle.

This wasn't me whining about being belittled, because I know better. This was a roll call for people who were in my boat. Here for fun. Here to experience a different culture.
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