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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:29 am Post subject: Say goodbye to those tuna rolls |
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http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/03/say_goodbye_to_those_tuna_rolls
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/03/AR2010030301436.htmlhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/03/AR2010030301436.html
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The U.S. government announced Wednesday that it supports prohibiting international trade of Atlantic bluefin tuna, a move that could lead to the most sweeping trade restrictions ever imposed on the highly prized fish.
Sushi aficionados in Japan and elsewhere have consumed bluefin for decades, causing the fish's population to plummet. In less than two weeks, representatives from 175 countries will convene in Doha, Qatar, to determine whether to restrict the trade of bluefin tuna -- valued for its rich, buttery taste -- and an array of other imperiled species under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES).
Late last year, Monaco proposed listing Atlantic bluefin tuna under the treaty's Appendix I, which amounts to a total ban. The Obama administration did not immediately endorse the proposal, a move that sparked widespread criticism from American marine scientists and ocean activists. But Tom Strickland, assistant secretary for fish and wildlife and parks at the U.S. Department of the Interior, privately backed the proposal from the outset.
Japan, the world's largest bluefin consumer, opposes the idea of trade restrictions, while the European Union has yet to take a formal position.
"We are literally at a moment where if we don't get this right, we could see this very, very special species really at risk for survival," said Strickland, who will lead the U.S. delegation to CITES between March 13 and 25. |
If the claims about rapidly diminishing numbers of tuna are true, I fully support an international attempt to save this (delicious) species. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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If it's true, then it's indeed disconcerting. However, I've become so cynical over time from the sheer volume of lies fed us by governments and intergovernmental agencies and NGO's that I no longer automatically believe anything they say. If they'll lie about WMDs, AGW and swine flu etc. etc., they'll lie about anything.
Anyway, I won't say the claims aren't true (I'm not sure), but where's the evidence that tuna is being "decimated"? Just because Prince Albert II says so doesn't mean I'm going to believe it. I do feel rather skeptical that fishermen (or even large scale fishing companies) would be so stupid as to threaten their entire livelihood just to reap short gain profits driving global fisheries into extinction. The whole thing smacks of "peak oil" to me. Small scale fishermen aren't going have much impact (though they'll no doubt be the first to be banned from making a living), and large scale operations would love nothing more than for artificial scarcity to drive up the prices ($175,000 for a tuna ain't cheap) even if the commodity isn't really scarce. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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So international trade would be illegalized, but fishing for Atlantic Bluefins would still be legal meaning individuals residing in countries boardering the Atlantic would still be able to legally consume them, right?
I can understand why that concept would upset Japan, particularly given how popular the fish is there, and how much it can sell for. They can still have their Pacific Bluefins, though. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Cap and trade for tuna my friends. |
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rocket_scientist
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Location: Prague
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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The negative effects of eating raw fish seem to be worms. There seem to be three kinds of worms; two can be avoided, one does not live long in humans.
I think there is too much much fishing so I study aquaculture and I can discuss many kinds of fish farming. Some fish, quite a few, have a life cycle and breeding habits that can't easily be reproduced. like King Crabs. If you could breed lobsters, you'd get rich but we can bred crayfish now that no one wants. I eat them when I can but its a mess. I can eat about 30-40 crawdads when they are offered. some people think its crude. That tuna they mentioned can be farmed but it doesn't taste as good as the wild stuff. I had carp sushi, it was much better than cooked carp. The Orthodox eat alot of carp.
when people talk about sustainable development, they never discuss the off shore uses of an ocean. Take a place 400 miles off the coast of California and use a 50 square mile patch. What would you use it for? Can you make energy or grow something? We just ignore it as if it has no potential. Its alot of underutilized space. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rocket_scientist wrote: |
The negative effects of eating raw fish seem to be worms. There seem to be three kinds of worms; two can be avoided, one does not live long in humans.
I think there is too much much fishing so I study aquaculture and I can discuss many kinds of fish farming. Some fish, quite a few, have a life cycle and breeding habits that can't easily be reproduced. like King Crabs. If you could breed lobsters, you'd get rich but we can bred crayfish now that no one wants. I eat them when I can but its a mess. I can eat about 30-40 crawdads when they are offered. some people think its crude. That tuna they mentioned can be farmed but it doesn't taste as good as the wild stuff. I had carp sushi, it was much better than cooked carp. The Orthodox eat alot of carp.
when people talk about sustainable development, they never discuss the off shore uses of an ocean. Take a place 400 miles off the coast of California and use a 50 square mile patch. What would you use it for? Can you make energy or grow something? We just ignore it as if it has no potential. Its alot of underutilized space. |
"Bartender, I'll have whatever he's having". |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| rocket_scientist wrote: |
| If you could breed lobsters, you'd get rich but we can bred crayfish now that no one wants. I eat them when I can but its a mess. I can eat about 30-40 crawdads when they are offered. some people think its crude. |
Gold!
Rocket_scientist, I don't mean to be rude, but are you Korean? |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Say goodbye to those tuna rolls |
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| mises wrote: |
Japan, the world's largest bluefin consumer, opposes the idea of trade restrictions, while the European Union has yet to take a formal position. . |
Surpise surprise.
Japan has a history of overfishing.They don't know the meaning of "sustainable use".Japanese waters are among the worlds most denuded and overexploited. They are decades behind the west in terms of environmental awareness.
Its a sort of obstinacy and pride thing."We can kill anything we want and it is our right". What they don't get is that many of these species are a shared resource that migrate through the waters of many countries seasonally. Whales still exist only because other countries have put in the effort to protect them.
We are getting to a point where nations will start putting economic sanctions on Japan to make them wake up. Australia for one is threatening to take them to court for whaling.
Then there is their mass slaughter of dolphins every year.
There is not an "unlimited supply" of tuna, whales, dolphins or any other marine life, and this resource needs to be managed wisely. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Say goodbye to those tuna rolls |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
Japan, the world's largest bluefin consumer, opposes the idea of trade restrictions, while the European Union has yet to take a formal position. . |
Surpise surprise.
Japan has a history of overfishing.They don't know the meaning of "sustainable use". Japanese waters are among the worlds most denuded and overexploited. They are decades behind the west in terms of environmental awareness. |
The Japanese aren't able to effectively fish Atlantic Bluefin Salmon, and thus not able to over-fish them. They oppose the ban on international trade because it would prevent them from purchasing them. This is a case of other countries over-fishing; Japan is simply willing to pay premium price for the fish. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Say goodbye to those tuna rolls |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
Japan, the world's largest bluefin consumer, opposes the idea of trade restrictions, while the European Union has yet to take a formal position. . |
Surpise surprise.
Japan has a history of overfishing.They don't know the meaning of "sustainable use".Japanese waters are among the worlds most denuded and overexploited. They are decades behind the west in terms of environmental awareness.
Its a sort of obstinacy and pride thing."We can kill anything we want and it is our right". What they don't get is that many of these species are a shared resource that migrate through the waters of many countries seasonally. Whales still exist only because other countries have put in the effort to protect them.
We are getting to a point where nations will start putting economic sanctions on Japan to make them wake up. Australia for one is threatening to take them to court for whaling.
Then there is their mass slaughter of dolphins every year.
There is not an "unlimited supply" of tuna, whales, dolphins or any other marine life, and this resource needs to be managed wisely. |
Wow, that's a lot of claims with zero actual evidence given. Sounds like you're just parroting something you read on a PETA website...
Japan doesn't know the meaning of "sustainable"? Funny how they lead the world in developing many sustainable technologies. I'll grant slaughtering dolphins isn't particularly admirable, but it's hardly anything to lecture them about (seeing as we slaughter pigs, cows and other less cute animals by the millions). I've still seen no proof that Japan is driving fish stocks to extinction, just some one-sided claims thrown out there.
As for putting sanctions on Japan, don't make me laugh. Australia needs Japan far more than vice versa (Japan is Australia's largest export destination). Japan is an economic superpower that holds around $2 trillion in reserves (as if the US would ever risk damaging its close relation and economic ties with Japan over some fish). You might as well advocate putting "sanctions" on the US itself (it simply ain't going to happen). |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Say goodbye to those tuna rolls |
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| Fox wrote: |
The Japanese aren't able to effectively fish Atlantic Bluefin Salmon, and thus not able to over-fish them. |
Why are you talking about salmon?
The Japanese catch Bluefin Tuna.
Tuna Town in Japan Sees Falloff of Its Fish
September 19, 2009
OMA, Japan � Fishermen here call it �black gold,� referring to the dark red flesh of the Pacific bluefin tuna that is so prized in this sashimi-loving nation that just one of these sleek fish, which can weigh a half-ton, can earn tens of thousands of dollars.
But now the town faces a looming threat, as the number of tuna has begun dropping precipitously in recent years because of overfishing.
Just a decade or two ago, each boat here could routinely catch three or four tuna a day, fishermen say. Now, they say Oma�s entire fleet of 30 to 40 boats is lucky to bring in a combined total of a half-dozen tuna in a day.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/world/asia/20tuna.html
Japan also catches Atlantic Bluefin Tuna btw, not just pacific. In any case the two are so closely similar that they were considered conspecific until relatively recently.
Japan to cut Atlantic bluefin tuna catch by 23%
2007
Japan today agreed to cut its catch of Atlantic bluefin tuna by almost a quarter over the next four years in the latest attempt to save the fish from commercial extinction.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/jan/31/fish.japan |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Say goodbye to those tuna rolls |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Wow, that's a lot of claims with zero actual evidence given. |
I haven't read your drivel...neither will I
...because u've already proven what a complete paranoid delusional nutbar UR on former threads.
Last edited by nautilus on Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
If it's true, then it's indeed disconcerting. However, I've become so cynical over time from the sheer volume of lies fed us by governments and intergovernmental agencies and NGO's that I no longer automatically believe anything they say. If they'll lie about WMDs, AGW and swine flu etc. etc., they'll lie about anything.
Anyway, I won't say the claims aren't true (I'm not sure), but where's the evidence that tuna is being "decimated"? Just because Prince Albert II says so doesn't mean I'm going to believe it. I do feel rather skeptical that fishermen (or even large scale fishing companies) would be so stupid as to threaten their entire livelihood just to reap short gain profits driving global fisheries into extinction. The whole thing smacks of "peak oil" to me. Small scale fishermen aren't going have much impact (though they'll no doubt be the first to be banned from making a living), and large scale operations would love nothing more than for artificial scarcity to drive up the prices ($175,000 for a tuna ain't cheap) even if the commodity isn't really scarce. |
Aye the governments do tend to tell fibs, but really? Fibbing to inflate the price of tuna? Is the lobbying power of large fishing companies so strong?
(I'm not being wholly facetious man, if the evidence crops up to suggest it's true then I'll fall in). |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| If it's true, then it's indeed disconcerting. However, I've become so cynical over time from the sheer volume of lies fed us by governments and intergovernmental agencies and NGO's that I no longer automatically believe anything they say. If they'll lie about WMDs, AGW and swine flu etc. etc., they'll lie about anything. |
Yeah, I agree. I am inclined to think there is a real issue here given the rapidly increasing demand for tuna.
| Quote: |
| I do feel rather skeptical that fishermen (or even large scale fishing companies) would be so stupid as to threaten their entire livelihood just to reap short gain profits driving global fisheries into extinction. |
The tragedy of the commons. There is no incentive to preserve a resource when any/all have access to the resource. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Yeah, I agree. I am inclined to think there is a real issue here given the rapidly increasing demand for tuna. |
 Even a thread about tuna brings out the full menagerie of conspiracy theorists. Mises, VQ...anyone else? A better question for you would be:"Do you think there is anything on the planet that is not the result of some conspiratorial macchination designed to shaft you"?
FYI demand increases as supply decreases. That goes for just about every product on earth, from oil to bananas, foreign esl teachers, platinum and plutonium. |
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