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ACORN Videos Editted
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Street Magic

Joined: 23 Sep 2009

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject:

.38 Special wrote:

Nevertheless, there is no evidence that the comments made in the video have been misrepresented. The audit finds that the comments did occur and they are damning.

Video tampering aside, what about the claim that the recorded employees knew how ridiculous the idea of that kid being a pimp/trafficking child prostitutes/etc. was and were just playing along as a joke? Once again, I seriously can't believe how anyone would take some scrawny white kid seriously over the claims he was making. That was my first impression upon seeing the video and there was a story reported later on about how the employees were claiming they were just "acting like Colbert" or something along those lines. Normally, that sounds like a pretty weak defense, but if you look at that kid, it seems just as suspicious that anyone would take him seriously in the role he was trying to present.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject:

.38 Special wrote:

Fox wrote:

.38 Special wrote:

The blogger you cite is taking some seriously huge poetic license. The videos appear to be manipulated, yes. They were a compressed format (instead of dozens of hours of raw video footage unsuitable for propaganda).

Are you saying the individual in question is lying about the substitute voice overs?

I'm claiming nothing, unlike your blog-source. I am, however, reiterating what the report actually said.

Well, the bloggers claim is taken from the report, so your reiteration of what the report says should include confirming the blogger's claim. Why are you shrugging that off?

.38 Special wrote:

The substitute voice-over is not of the ACORN employees but of the interviewers.

Just so, and as the report says, it makes it difficult to be sure of the content of the comment the employees are responding to. If you say, "Yes, I can help you with that," in response to a request from me, for example, what I said is of vital importance in understanding the exchange.

.38 Special wrote:

The audit has a right to raise that question because the original video is not available. It chooses not to because the auditor does not believe that there was a misrepresentation.

No, it chooses not to to remain as neutral as possible rather than engaging in speculation. That's not the same thing.

.38 Special wrote:

This is all in the report. Read the original material. The blogger is misrepresenting the report.

I read the report (I quoted text from the report, why do you keep acting like I haven't read it?). The blogger is not misrepresenting it at all; the conservative propagandists gathered a large quantity of content, used the tiny bit that seemed remotely damning, and even then used voice overs to obscure commentary in the bit they did use.

.38 Special wrote:

Nevertheless, there is no evidence that the comments made in the video have been misrepresented. The audit finds that the comments did occur and they are damning.

Damning in what sense? Not in any legal sense, which is the only sense that should matter from a political perspective. Defunding an organization which helps enfranchise poor and minority voters over videos like this is utterly ridiculous.

.38 Special wrote:

If you rely on the media to make-up your mind for you then, yes, you will have an unreasonable, knee-jerk reaction born of ignorance. That's how the media get's ratings: overreaction.

One would imagine then that a liberal media would be screaming about this to produce an overreaction against the political right. That isn't happening, though, which again emphasizes the point I personally am trying to make: that no such media seriously exists in America.

No_hite_pls

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: ACORN Videos Editted

Quote:

So not only did this fellow get arrested for trying to bug the office of a United States Senator, but he actually editted the ACORN tapes as well. Hope the Republicans are happy with how this witch hunt turned out. One would imagine this story would be all over the place in the "liberal" media, but strangely, it doesn't seem to be. It's almost like the liberal media isn't actually all that liberal, but has just been falsely portrayed as such by the extreme right that has taken near total control of our national political dialogue, which is why reasonable suggestions like publically provided health care options become socialist death panels, and totally ridiculous wars of discretion become fine, well thought out ideas. It's why so many people genuinely believe that an organization like ACORN could even hypothetically steal elections.

.38 Special

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject:

Fox, what I'm about to tell you is painful. Grab a kleenex, this won't be gentle. The videos condemning ACORN were propaganda created to create a negative image of the organization. It succeeded. ACORN hired an auditor to prove that ACORN was innocent. The auditor did not come to that conclusion. The auditor determined that what occurred in those interviews were the truth. ACORN part-time employees encouraged illegal activity. This is stated fact. Put on your aluminum foil hat. The conspiracy deepens. It's so deep, that an independent auditor hired by ACORN found their management methods to be responsible for irresponsible council. You claim to read the report, but you continually show that you did not. The report is a confession, not the exposition to a conspiracy for the right-wing control of the media. Seriously, I have a policy about arguing with idiots. Three times I respond with facts and sources. On the third time I abandon them to their theories about New World Orders and Right-Wing Take-Overs. Enjoy.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject:

.38 Special wrote:

The videos condemning ACORN were propaganda created to create a negative image of the organization. It succeeded.

ACORN hired an auditor to prove that ACORN was innocent. The auditor did not come to that conclusion.

Yes, he did. He came to the conclusion that there was nothing illegal about the behavior engaged in by ACORN. What would you call that except being innocent? Here, I'll even quote the report you posted for you:

Quote:

This hidden camera controversy is an apt example. While some of the advice and counsel given by ACORN employees and volunteers was clearly inappropriate and unprofessional, we did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff; in fact, there is no evidence that action, illegal or otherwise, was taken by any ACORN employee on behalf of the videographers.

How you can call that being anything but innocent is beyond me. These videos attempted to construe ACORN as engaging in illegal activity. Republicans, Fox News, and conservatives like yourself all chose to construe it as such. And after it's revealed nothing of the sort occured, you're still trying to label ACORN as "guilty." This report contains suggestions on how ACORN can be improved as a professional entity, not damning commentary. There's nothing damning about admitting management of an organization needs to be improved. There's nothing damning about pointing out that no illegal activity occured. But conservatives can't handle that, because they don't deal in facts, they deal in emotions. By continuing to say things like, "ACORN is not innocent," or, "ACORN smells wrong," they can continue to condemn an organization which enfranchises minority and lower class voters without any serious basis for that condemnation.

.38 Special wrote:

Seriously, I have a policy about arguing with idiots. Three times I respond with facts and sources.

Given the source you yourself posted says ACORN is innocent of any illegal activity, maybe it's time to consider whether you're in a position to throw around words like idiot. Perhaps you should have kept to condemning ACORN because it doesn't smell right, it certainly had more intellectual substance than posting a source and then arguing the exact opposite of what the source you posted concluded.

Last edited by Fox on Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

seonsengnimble

Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus

Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject:

.38 Special wrote:

ACORN hired an auditor to prove that ACORN was innocent. The auditor did not come to that conclusion.

The auditor determined that what occurred in those interviews were the truth. ACORN part-time employees encouraged illegal activity.

This is stated fact.

How does " While some of the advice and counsel given by ACORN employees and volunteers was clearly inappropriate and unprofessional, we did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff; in fact, there is no evidence that action, illegal or otherwise, was taken by any ACORN employee on behalf of the videographers" mean anything other than ACORN committed no crimes? http://www.proskauer.com/files/uploads/report2.pdf

beck's

Joined: 02 Aug 2006

Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:25 am Post subject:

Ann Coulter is always a hoot. Here she is on the ACORN fiasco. http://www.anncoulter.com/

.38 Special

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania

Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:39 am Post subject:

seonsengnimble wrote:

.38 Special wrote:

Giving, encouraging, or apparently agreeing with advice regarding illegal activity is in of itself not illegal activity. ACORN is not guilty of any crimes other than mismanagement and giving bad advice.

The audit does not question this.

Seriously, guys, the audit is longer than the select quotes that you've taken out of context. The report finds that the comments made in the video did in fact occur. The report also finds that no services were offered to the videographers -- there were no illegal services provided, only advice.

That is the finding of the audit. If you disagree with the audit then you should take it up with ACORN themselves. I cannot help you any further.

Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009

Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject:

.38 Special wrote:

There you go, again, with your Fox-News-style, misportrayal-based smearing. Mismanagement and giving bad advice is not a crime. ACORN is not guilty of any crimes at all. Your use of the word guilty is what is completely incorrect based on your source. Informing an organization as to how they can better manage themselves is not "damning" proof of guilt of anything.

The length you're willing to go to to defend your inane "ACORN just smells bad" knee jerk hunch is idiotic.

.38 Special wrote:

Seriously, guys, the audit is longer than the select quotes that you've taken out of context.

And here we go with another favorite of disingenuous conservatives: claiming things were taken out of context. Neither seonsangnimble nor myself is taking anything out of context. The statement that ACORN is not guilty of any illegal activity at all is not something one can take out of context; it's a full, clearly expressed idea in and of itself. It's you who is trying to twist suggestions as to how ACORN can better be managed into something "damning," all to defend your inane, conservative knee jerk tomfoolery.

.38 Special wrote:

That is the finding of the audit. If you disagree with the audit then you should take it up with ACORN themselves. I cannot help you any further.

No one here's disagreeing with the audit, kiddo. We're disagreeing with your Fox-News-style smear of ACORN based on deliberately misconstruing this audit as somehow "damning." We're disagreeing with your implications that less than perfect management is somehow a crime one can be guilty of (and yes, that's what "no crime other than..." implies to any basic, coherent native speaker of English).

It's incredibly simple.

kiknkorea

Joined: 16 May 2008

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:20 am Post subject:

GAME OVER

Quote:

CHICAGO -- The once mighty community activist group ACORN announced Monday it is folding amid falling revenues -- six months after video footage emerged showing some of its workers giving tax tips to conservative activists posing as a pimp and prostitute.

"It's really declining revenue in the face of a series of attacks from partisan operatives and right-wing activists that have taken away our ability to raise the resources we need," ACORN spokesman Kevin Whelan said.

Several of its largest affiliates, including ACORN New York and ACORN California, broke away this year and changed their names in a bid to ditch the tarnished image of their parent organization and restore revenue that ran dry in the wake of the video scandal.

ACORN's financial situation and reputation went into free fall within days of the videos' release in September. Congress reacted by yanking ACORN's federal funding, private donors held back cash and scores of ACORN offices closed.

Earlier this month, a U.S. judge reiterated an earlier ruling that the federal law blacklisting ACORN and groups allied with it was unconstitutional because it singled them out. But that didn't mean any money would be automatically be restored.

Bertha Lewis, the CEO of ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, alluded to financial hardships in a weekend statement as the group's board prepared to deliberate by phone.

"ACORN has faced a series of well-orchestrated, relentless, well-funded right wing attacks that are unprecedented since the McCarthy era," she said. "The videos were a manufactured, sensational story that led to rush to judgment and an unconstitutional act by Congress."

ACORN's board decided to close remaining state affiliates and field offices by April 1 because of falling revenues, with some national operations will continue operating for at least several weeks before shutting for good, Whelan said Monday.

For years, ACORN could draw on 400,000 members to lobby for liberal causes, such as raising the minimum wage or adopting universal health care. ACORN was arguably most successful at registering hundreds of thousands of low-income voters, though that mission was dogged by fraud allegations, including that some workers submitted forms signed by 'Mickey Mouse' or other cartoon characters.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/23/acorn-shut-wake-scandal/

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