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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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 Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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With the way the job market is back home these days, the definition of 'unemployable' has widened to include all kinds of previously desirable types.
Bachelor's degree - check
Responsible - check
Personable - check
Presentable - check
Employable - not in this economy, you need skills |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
With the way the job market is back home these days, the definition of 'unemployable' has widened to include all kinds of previously desirable types.
Bachelor's degree - check
Responsible - check
Personable - check
Presentable - check
Employable - not in this economy, you need skills |
But didn't you work while in uni? How can someone not have acquired any skills by 21?
Yes it's rough, but there are plenty of low-level jobs available in offices. This is the time to move up quickly, because employers are looking to save money by giving more duties to the younger, cheaper workers. You may not make a lot of money at the beginning, but once the economy clears up, those skills will land you a great gig! One of my friends became an editor-in-chief of a national magazine that way! |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:49 am Post subject: |
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^ I was thinking of this article - http://www.ajc.com/lifestyle/young-americans-flock-overseas-339408.html - referred to on the Marmot's Hole.
I'm sure you're right and it's quite possible to get worthwhile experience in a bottom of the ladder job in the US and work your way up. Just being my usual pessimistic self. |
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Satchel Paige
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Actually, I think I read somewhere in news a little while back that even low-level office jobs are scarce right now. There are people in certain parts of the US right now with masters degrees applying for secretarial jobs. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Satchel Paige wrote: |
Actually, I think I read somewhere in news a little while back that even low-level office jobs are scarce right now. There are people in certain parts of the US right now with masters degrees applying for secretarial jobs. |
Certain parts, of course. That's when one moves to a city, gets an apartment with a roomate just outside said city, and works. Our grandparents had to give up stockings and metal goods! There was food rationing. What's living a little frugally for a few years while gaining valuable job skills? I certainly wasn't raking in the cash at my office job (I tutored privately to supplement), but I was promoted twice in a matter of a couple years, and worked directly for my art director and ed-in-chief, from a mere publisher's assistant gig. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
With the way the job market is back home these days, the definition of 'unemployable' has widened to include all kinds of previously desirable types.
Bachelor's degree - check
Responsible - check
Personable - check
Presentable - check
Employable - not in this economy, you need skills |
But didn't you work while in uni? How can someone not have acquired any skills by 21?
Yes it's rough, but there are plenty of low-level jobs available in offices. This is the time to move up quickly, because employers are looking to save money by giving more duties to the younger, cheaper workers. You may not make a lot of money at the beginning, but once the economy clears up, those skills will land you a great gig! One of my friends became an editor-in-chief of a national magazine that way! |
You seem to advocate that graduates should have some skills and should sacrifice like hell to get a start in a crappy economy.
I see a few things wrong with your statements:
A lot of people don't work while going to university. I had a hell of a hard time getting part-time work as I studied in a bilingual city, yet didn't speak one of the two languages. The job I did get lasted a summer and was in retail. If working retail is considered a skill set, I feel sorry for your line of thinking. People spend 4 years at university to NOT have to work retail when they graduate. None of my friends worked outside the summers, and a few didn't even work summers.
People shouldn't have to struggle and live like students for years AFTER they graduate just to get ahead. That is what is wrong with the current economy and the price of higher education. People are sold on the idea that getting a degree = getting the chance at a good job. What they don't realize is the value of most degrees are way over inflated.
About your points about people trying to make a go by working harder and impressing bosses at their crappy low paying jobs. The problem with this is most young people today have no gumption. They expect things handed to them. This is especially true of the crowd who had mommy and daddy paying for their 4 years of university.
What I have found it boils down to is, without connections or an Ivy League type degree it is very hard to get your foot in the door of a decent job. You mention that you went to a "good" NYC university and had a good job. IMO the only "good" NYC university is Columbia, and if you went there it fits into what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph.
There is nothing wrong with going overseas, especially now that the economy in North America is complete crap. I keep thinking to myself, do I really want the 9-5 experience with the mortgage and car payments? |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I was in the reserves during my time in uni- however that was one weekend a month and two AT drills at Cp. Smith in the summer. When I was in grad school (back in the 1990's), getting a part-time job was reasonably easy, considering that I was in NYC.
The job market in other parts of the US is more scarcer these days. Alot of the low-level, part-time jobs that were traditionally given to high school and college students in the US are now given to undocumented workers who are willing to do the same work at the same pay for a longer period of time. This leaves mid-level positions open that require a BA/BS degree (if not experience) before the applicant puts their foot in the door.
The problem now is that the person has a degree in hand, but no experience because the jobs that would give the student experience is now being taken and kept by mid-career professionals who are hurt in the economic slump.
The pattern is arising that an Associate Degree now is almost equivalent to a high school diploma years ago and the Bachelor Degree is almost equal to an Associate.
I believe that for a person to become marketable in this economy, they need some type of certification- some companies accept certain skillset certificates as an alternative to experience. There are many job certifications that are available on the internet.
Then my advice would be; if a person is contemplating relocating back to the US in the near future, they should think about what type of job field they want to get into and see what type of certification is available online.
Sure, it will cost both money and time, but it might be a good investment in the end. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
With the way the job market is back home these days, the definition of 'unemployable' has widened to include all kinds of previously desirable types.
Bachelor's degree - check
Responsible - check
Personable - check
Presentable - check
Employable - not in this economy, you need skills |
But didn't you work while in uni? How can someone not have acquired any skills by 21?
Yes it's rough, but there are plenty of low-level jobs available in offices. This is the time to move up quickly, because employers are looking to save money by giving more duties to the younger, cheaper workers. You may not make a lot of money at the beginning, but once the economy clears up, those skills will land you a great gig! One of my friends became an editor-in-chief of a national magazine that way! |
You seem to advocate that graduates should have some skills and should sacrifice like hell to get a start in a crappy economy.
I see a few things wrong with your statements:
A lot of people don't work while going to university. I had a hell of a hard time getting part-time work as I studied in a bilingual city, yet didn't speak one of the two languages. The job I did get lasted a summer and was in retail. If working retail is considered a skill set, I feel sorry for your line of thinking. People spend 4 years at university to NOT have to work retail when they graduate. None of my friends worked outside the summers, and a few didn't even work summers.
People shouldn't have to struggle and live like students for years AFTER they graduate just to get ahead. That is what is wrong with the current economy and the price of higher education. People are sold on the idea that getting a degree = getting the chance at a good job. What they don't realize is the value of most degrees are way over inflated.
About your points about people trying to make a go by working harder and impressing bosses at their crappy low paying jobs. The problem with this is most young people today have no gumption. They expect things handed to them. This is especially true of the crowd who had mommy and daddy paying for their 4 years of university.
What I have found it boils down to is, without connections or an Ivy League type degree it is very hard to get your foot in the door of a decent job. You mention that you went to a "good" NYC university and had a good job. IMO the only "good" NYC university is Columbia, and if you went there it fits into what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph.
There is nothing wrong with going overseas, especially now that the economy in North America is complete crap. I keep thinking to myself, do I really want the 9-5 experience with the mortgage and car payments? |
1. You chose to go to a city where you didn't speak either language. Most don't. As for my "line of thinking," I said I OFFICE jobs. How is retail an office job? READ
2. Your friends didn't have to work during college? So they took out loans or had mom and dad pay? Did they get full scholarships? I had a partial one, but I still had the rest of my tuition (still a hefty chunk), books, rent (I didn't live with mom and dad), and life to pay for.
3. You said young people have no gumption. Mom and dad paying, etc. Exactly. They are whining little babies. I worked hard, and had a second job as a private tutor. AND had a third job as a freelance manuscript editor. Yeah. I worked.
4. NYU is a good school. Your use of quote marks is rude. I took a summer intensive at Colombia, and, honestly, the networking at NYU was much better when it came to the publishing industry.
5. I never said there was anything wrong with going overseas for economic reasons. This was for those of us who did it for other reasons and were tired of being called unemployable.
6. As for car payments, one doesn't need one in NYC.  |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
I was in the reserves during my time in uni- however that was one weekend a month and two AT drills at Cp. Smith in the summer. When I was in grad school (back in the 1990's), getting a part-time job was reasonably easy, considering that I was in NYC.
The job market in other parts of the US is more scarcer these days. Alot of the low-level, part-time jobs that were traditionally given to high school and college students in the US are now given to undocumented workers who are willing to do the same work at the same pay for a longer period of time. This leaves mid-level positions open that require a BA/BS degree (if not experience) before the applicant puts their foot in the door.
The problem now is that the person has a degree in hand, but no experience because the jobs that would give the student experience is now being taken and kept by mid-career professionals who are hurt in the economic slump.
The pattern is arising that an Associate Degree now is almost equivalent to a high school diploma years ago and the Bachelor Degree is almost equal to an Associate.
I believe that for a person to become marketable in this economy, they need some type of certification- some companies accept certain skillset certificates as an alternative to experience. There are many job certifications that are available on the internet.
Then my advice would be; if a person is contemplating relocating back to the US in the near future, they should think about what type of job field they want to get into and see what type of certification is available online.
Sure, it will cost both money and time, but it might be a good investment in the end. |
Actually, a BA is the equivalent of a high school diploma, nowadays. To get a receptionist job, one needs one. Graduate school is essential, if one wants a good job with a future. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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^^ Tragically so.
What the US and many other hyperindustrial countries have become is a source of outsourcing- we export tons of jobs to underdeveloped countries while giving jobs to undocumented works at home. No wonder the US is in an economic slump; we, as Americans, are more concerned with the bottom line <profits> than providing a source of employment for our own citizens. We are hoping (I emphasize the word hoping) that we could revitalize the economy on the backs of middle to upper-class taxpayers. All the while we are virtually denying people a right to earn a living by shipping jobs overseas or giving it to people who remit money to their families abroad and don't pay taxes.
The big problem is that many of the jobs require a higher level of education that many Americans simply can't afford. Some of those who could are here in Korea, posting on Dave's. |
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kinerry
Joined: 01 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
With the way the job market is back home these days, the definition of 'unemployable' has widened to include all kinds of previously desirable types.
Bachelor's degree - check
Responsible - check
Personable - check
Presentable - check
Employable - not in this economy, you need skills |
But didn't you work while in uni? How can someone not have acquired any skills by 21?
Yes it's rough, but there are plenty of low-level jobs available in offices. This is the time to move up quickly, because employers are looking to save money by giving more duties to the younger, cheaper workers. You may not make a lot of money at the beginning, but once the economy clears up, those skills will land you a great gig! One of my friends became an editor-in-chief of a national magazine that way! |
You seem to advocate that graduates should have some skills and should sacrifice like hell to get a start in a crappy economy.
I see a few things wrong with your statements:
A lot of people don't work while going to university. I had a hell of a hard time getting part-time work as I studied in a bilingual city, yet didn't speak one of the two languages. The job I did get lasted a summer and was in retail. If working retail is considered a skill set, I feel sorry for your line of thinking. People spend 4 years at university to NOT have to work retail when they graduate. None of my friends worked outside the summers, and a few didn't even work summers.
People shouldn't have to struggle and live like students for years AFTER they graduate just to get ahead. That is what is wrong with the current economy and the price of higher education. People are sold on the idea that getting a degree = getting the chance at a good job. What they don't realize is the value of most degrees are way over inflated.
About your points about people trying to make a go by working harder and impressing bosses at their crappy low paying jobs. The problem with this is most young people today have no gumption. They expect things handed to them. This is especially true of the crowd who had mommy and daddy paying for their 4 years of university.
What I have found it boils down to is, without connections or an Ivy League type degree it is very hard to get your foot in the door of a decent job. You mention that you went to a "good" NYC university and had a good job. IMO the only "good" NYC university is Columbia, and if you went there it fits into what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph.
There is nothing wrong with going overseas, especially now that the economy in North America is complete crap. I keep thinking to myself, do I really want the 9-5 experience with the mortgage and car payments? |
1. You chose to go to a city where you didn't speak either language. Most don't. As for my "line of thinking," I said I OFFICE jobs. How is retail an office job? READ
2. Your friends didn't have to work during college? So they took out loans or had mom and dad pay? Did they get full scholarships? I had a partial one, but I still had the rest of my tuition (still a hefty chunk), books, rent (I didn't live with mom and dad), and life to pay for.
3. You said young people have no gumption. Mom and dad paying, etc. Exactly. They are whining little babies. I worked hard, and had a second job as a private tutor. AND had a third job as a freelance manuscript editor. Yeah. I worked.
4. NYU is a good school. Your use of quote marks is rude. I took a summer intensive at Colombia, and, honestly, the networking at NYU was much better when it came to the publishing industry.
5. I never said there was anything wrong with going overseas for economic reasons. This was for those of us who did it for other reasons and were tired of being called unemployable.
6. As for car payments, one doesn't need one in NYC. |
You sound a lot like Emily from Uijeongbu
P.S. You don't need a degree OR money to start a business |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| kinerry wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
With the way the job market is back home these days, the definition of 'unemployable' has widened to include all kinds of previously desirable types.
Bachelor's degree - check
Responsible - check
Personable - check
Presentable - check
Employable - not in this economy, you need skills |
But didn't you work while in uni? How can someone not have acquired any skills by 21?
Yes it's rough, but there are plenty of low-level jobs available in offices. This is the time to move up quickly, because employers are looking to save money by giving more duties to the younger, cheaper workers. You may not make a lot of money at the beginning, but once the economy clears up, those skills will land you a great gig! One of my friends became an editor-in-chief of a national magazine that way! |
You seem to advocate that graduates should have some skills and should sacrifice like hell to get a start in a crappy economy.
I see a few things wrong with your statements:
A lot of people don't work while going to university. I had a hell of a hard time getting part-time work as I studied in a bilingual city, yet didn't speak one of the two languages. The job I did get lasted a summer and was in retail. If working retail is considered a skill set, I feel sorry for your line of thinking. People spend 4 years at university to NOT have to work retail when they graduate. None of my friends worked outside the summers, and a few didn't even work summers.
People shouldn't have to struggle and live like students for years AFTER they graduate just to get ahead. That is what is wrong with the current economy and the price of higher education. People are sold on the idea that getting a degree = getting the chance at a good job. What they don't realize is the value of most degrees are way over inflated.
About your points about people trying to make a go by working harder and impressing bosses at their crappy low paying jobs. The problem with this is most young people today have no gumption. They expect things handed to them. This is especially true of the crowd who had mommy and daddy paying for their 4 years of university.
What I have found it boils down to is, without connections or an Ivy League type degree it is very hard to get your foot in the door of a decent job. You mention that you went to a "good" NYC university and had a good job. IMO the only "good" NYC university is Columbia, and if you went there it fits into what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph.
There is nothing wrong with going overseas, especially now that the economy in North America is complete crap. I keep thinking to myself, do I really want the 9-5 experience with the mortgage and car payments? |
1. You chose to go to a city where you didn't speak either language. Most don't. As for my "line of thinking," I said I OFFICE jobs. How is retail an office job? READ
2. Your friends didn't have to work during college? So they took out loans or had mom and dad pay? Did they get full scholarships? I had a partial one, but I still had the rest of my tuition (still a hefty chunk), books, rent (I didn't live with mom and dad), and life to pay for.
3. You said young people have no gumption. Mom and dad paying, etc. Exactly. They are whining little babies. I worked hard, and had a second job as a private tutor. AND had a third job as a freelance manuscript editor. Yeah. I worked.
4. NYU is a good school. Your use of quote marks is rude. I took a summer intensive at Colombia, and, honestly, the networking at NYU was much better when it came to the publishing industry.
5. I never said there was anything wrong with going overseas for economic reasons. This was for those of us who did it for other reasons and were tired of being called unemployable.
6. As for car payments, one doesn't need one in NYC. |
You sound a lot like Emily from Uijeongbu
P.S. You don't need a degree OR money to start a business |
Yeah, I saw tons of homeless people back home selling The Big Issue.....they didn't have money, heck they didn't even have a place to live, talk about frugal. To get a decent white collar job nowadays you need both a degree and money. And to start pretty much any business one needs at least some money. What sort of business are you going to start with no money? |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| English Matt wrote: |
| kinerry wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
With the way the job market is back home these days, the definition of 'unemployable' has widened to include all kinds of previously desirable types.
Bachelor's degree - check
Responsible - check
Personable - check
Presentable - check
Employable - not in this economy, you need skills |
But didn't you work while in uni? How can someone not have acquired any skills by 21?
Yes it's rough, but there are plenty of low-level jobs available in offices. This is the time to move up quickly, because employers are looking to save money by giving more duties to the younger, cheaper workers. You may not make a lot of money at the beginning, but once the economy clears up, those skills will land you a great gig! One of my friends became an editor-in-chief of a national magazine that way! |
You seem to advocate that graduates should have some skills and should sacrifice like hell to get a start in a crappy economy.
I see a few things wrong with your statements:
A lot of people don't work while going to university. I had a hell of a hard time getting part-time work as I studied in a bilingual city, yet didn't speak one of the two languages. The job I did get lasted a summer and was in retail. If working retail is considered a skill set, I feel sorry for your line of thinking. People spend 4 years at university to NOT have to work retail when they graduate. None of my friends worked outside the summers, and a few didn't even work summers.
People shouldn't have to struggle and live like students for years AFTER they graduate just to get ahead. That is what is wrong with the current economy and the price of higher education. People are sold on the idea that getting a degree = getting the chance at a good job. What they don't realize is the value of most degrees are way over inflated.
About your points about people trying to make a go by working harder and impressing bosses at their crappy low paying jobs. The problem with this is most young people today have no gumption. They expect things handed to them. This is especially true of the crowd who had mommy and daddy paying for their 4 years of university.
What I have found it boils down to is, without connections or an Ivy League type degree it is very hard to get your foot in the door of a decent job. You mention that you went to a "good" NYC university and had a good job. IMO the only "good" NYC university is Columbia, and if you went there it fits into what I said in the first sentence of this paragraph.
There is nothing wrong with going overseas, especially now that the economy in North America is complete crap. I keep thinking to myself, do I really want the 9-5 experience with the mortgage and car payments? |
1. You chose to go to a city where you didn't speak either language. Most don't. As for my "line of thinking," I said I OFFICE jobs. How is retail an office job? READ
2. Your friends didn't have to work during college? So they took out loans or had mom and dad pay? Did they get full scholarships? I had a partial one, but I still had the rest of my tuition (still a hefty chunk), books, rent (I didn't live with mom and dad), and life to pay for.
3. You said young people have no gumption. Mom and dad paying, etc. Exactly. They are whining little babies. I worked hard, and had a second job as a private tutor. AND had a third job as a freelance manuscript editor. Yeah. I worked.
4. NYU is a good school. Your use of quote marks is rude. I took a summer intensive at Colombia, and, honestly, the networking at NYU was much better when it came to the publishing industry.
5. I never said there was anything wrong with going overseas for economic reasons. This was for those of us who did it for other reasons and were tired of being called unemployable.
6. As for car payments, one doesn't need one in NYC. |
You sound a lot like Emily from Uijeongbu
P.S. You don't need a degree OR money to start a business |
Yeah, I saw tons of homeless people back home selling The Big Issue.....they didn't have money, heck they didn't even have a place to live, talk about frugal. To get a decent white collar job nowadays you need both a degree and money. And to start pretty much any business one needs at least some money. What sort of business are you going to start with no money? |
I'd rather work for a successful business for a while before even attempting to begin my own. First, one must learn from the experienced.
I'm not sure who Emily from Uijeongbu is.
I worked retail when I was in high school, and even my first year of uni, but I knew that those skills wouldn't be useful in the publishing industry (CV-wise, at least), so interned at City Hall, and got a more grown-up job.
Now, I'm having a lovely time, working far fewer hours than at my job in NYC, and experiencing a completely different culture. Who knows where the wind will take me? |
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