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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:07 am Post subject: |
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How many foreign English instructors enter Korea and obtain work illegally?
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Does that illegal work include private tutoring? If so, I don't think you really want to hear the answer to that question, because it almost certainly would not back up your point about ESLers being comparatively law-abiding.
Of course, Koreans themselves bear a high onus for all the illegal tutoring, since they're the ones who hire the foreigners to do the renegade lessons. But you could say the same thing about white middle-class Americans who hire illegal Mexicans. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| America for instance has plenty of unskilled Mexicans who come to our country, can barely speak English (if at all), and engage in criminal behavior. |
Can you speak Korean? |
네, 한국말을 할 수 있다. 그리고, 나는 법을 항상 따른다. |
Great.
-Then are you willing to contemplate the possibility that the vast majority of mexican immigrants do not commit crime (or at worst, at only a similar rate to non-mexican americans?).
-The possibility that you may simply have swallowed a lot of propoganda and biased stereotyping about a whole demographic in your country?
Because it seems to me that a lot of foreigners who complain about racism in Korea also hypocritically project the all the same attitudes onto racial minorities in their own countries. |
How much gang violence have foreign English instructors brought with them into Korea? How many foreign English instructors enter Korea and obtain work illegally?
Comparing the situation here to that of the issue of illegal immigration in America and Europe has never been and never will be convincing. |
How many English teachers come from third or second world countries? How many English teachers live below the poverty line here in Korea? The fact that these people are Mexicans has very little reason to do with a dispropotionate amount being involved in criminal activities when compared to other demographics in the US. The fact that they are marginalised (by dint of the fact that they are there illegally) and therefore in a very low socio-economic strata versus the rest of US society is the reason for the crime. They went to the US because they were desperate.....once they are in the US they are still desperate. Some will turn to crime to survive, others will turn to crime to exploit the weaker elements of this society (i.e. work as coyotes, force women into prostitution, get others to act as drug mules, etc) in order to personally benefit themselves......in essence it is a bare-knuckles microcosm of capitalism.
I know some people love to ascribe a tendency to be more likely to commit crime / be more violent / be less trustworthy (and so on) to a group of people based upon their religion or race, however this (IMO) is nothing but thinly veiled racism and bigotry. In percentage terms, a young black man in London is more likely to be arrested for a crime than a young white man - even though they constitute a minority ethnic group in London - because more young black men (as a percentage) come from economically deprived backgrounds than do their white counterparts (again as a percentage of the whole).
Poverty breeds criminal behaviour, not skin colour or religious beliefs.
Last edited by English Matt on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| How about you start questioning similar assumptions about foreigners living in your home country? |
Just because assumptions regarding the level of crime committed by foreigners in Korea may be off base, does not mean that similar assumptions in say, the Netherlands or Norway about the level of foreign crime are not true.
One only needs to look at the makeup of prison populations and crime statistics to see that it is indeed a problem.
The idea that we should be offering asylum and a 'better life' to people with little education and no skills in a time of economic collapse is absurd. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| In percentage terms, a young black man in London is more likely to be arrested for a crime than a young white man - even though they constitute a minority in London - because more young black men (as a percentage) come from economically deprived backgrounds than do their white counterparts (again as a percentage of the whole). |
You forgot to mention 'because they commit a massively disproportionate amount of street crime'. They are arrested because they commit crime, not because they are poor. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: |
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While the poverty = criminal theory is a fun obsession of diversity pushers, Mexicans are actually quite peaceful.
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2010/mar/01/00022/
That's to say, Mexicans in the US are both poor and peaceful (less domestic violence and drunk driving).
However, even into the 4th generation, they are far, far behind whites and East/South Asians in educational achievement and income.
Further, the "marginalization" theme doesn't work either. Look at LA, where Mexicans are the majority or near majority and control school boards, the city government and similar. They still don't perform well, even when politically dominant.
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~2778965,00.html
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The state has reported a graduation rate of 87 percent, but the Harvard researchers found an overall graduation rate of 71 percent for 2002. Graduation rates for non-Asian minority students were significantly lower, with a 57 percent rate for blacks, 60 percent for Latinos and 52 percent for American Indians. For minority males, the figures were even worse: 50 percent for blacks, 54 percent for Latinos and 46 percent for American Indians.
In the LAUSD, just 39 percent of Latino students and 47 percent of African-American students graduate in four years. |
The LA school district is just under 80% Hispanic. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| How about you start questioning similar assumptions about foreigners living in your home country? |
Just because assumptions regarding the level of crime committed by foreigners in Korea may be off base, does not mean that similar assumptions in say, the Netherlands or Norway about the level of foreign crime are not true.
One only needs to look at the makeup of prison populations and crime statistics to see that it is indeed a problem.
The idea that we should be offering asylum and a 'better life' to people with little education and no skills in a time of economic collapse is absurd. |
If you've worked with asylum seekers then you would know that many of these people do actually have educations and skills. Even those who don't are still human....if they are going to have their head chopped off back home it's basic morality to give them sanctuary. Additionally, in most cases, asylum seekers are not being given a better life....they are simply being given a life....the bare bones.....they are not given the keys to a beamer and then ushered into their brand spanking new penthouse apartment.
Do not conflate illegal economic migrants with asylum seekers. Also, see my previous post on why you should not conflate crime with the colour of a persons skin or religion. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
While the poverty = criminal theory is a fun obsession of diversity pushers, Mexicans are actually quite peaceful.
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2010/mar/01/00022/
That's to say, Mexicans in the US are both poor and peaceful (less domestic violence and drunk driving).
However, even into the 4th generation, they are far, far behind whites and East/South Asians in educational achievement and income.
Further, the "marginalization" theme doesn't work either. Look at LA, where Mexicans are the majority or near majority and control school boards, the city government and similar. They still don't perform well, even when politically dominant.
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~20954~2778965,00.html
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The state has reported a graduation rate of 87 percent, but the Harvard researchers found an overall graduation rate of 71 percent for 2002. Graduation rates for non-Asian minority students were significantly lower, with a 57 percent rate for blacks, 60 percent for Latinos and 52 percent for American Indians. For minority males, the figures were even worse: 50 percent for blacks, 54 percent for Latinos and 46 percent for American Indians.
In the LAUSD, just 39 percent of Latino students and 47 percent of African-American students graduate in four years. |
The LA school district is just under 80% Hispanic. |
OK.....so we're going to move from discussing illegal economic migrants to discussing 4th generation immigrants to the US just like that are we? If you can move the goal posts with regards to the discussion at hand then so can I.
Which is better blancmange or jelly? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Do not conflate illegal economic migrants with asylum seekers. Also, see my previous post on why you should not conflate crime with the colour of a persons skin or religion |
How they enter the country in my opinion is irrelevant. Many asylum applications are clearly fraudulent, and I do not see why escaping political persecution should be thought of as morally superior to escaping grinding poverty. That said, we are a tiny country, with a massive unemployment problem, and rising social tensions. Allowing hundreds of thousands of people from culturally unassimilable cultures to enter the country makes no sense. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In percentage terms, a young black man in London is more likely to be arrested for a crime than a young white man - even though they constitute a minority in London - because more young black men (as a percentage) come from economically deprived backgrounds than do their white counterparts (again as a percentage of the whole). |
You forgot to mention 'because they commit a massively disproportionate amount of street crime'. They are arrested because they commit crime, not because they are poor. |
They commit crime because they are poor.
Do rich black men commit street crime? That is to say black men who are not rich because they just knocked off a securicor van. White men also commit street crime big verne.....I have been attacked in the street twice in the UK, and both times it was by white men. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:27 am Post subject: |
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looking back on the past 2000 years of history there have been a lot of major changes in the world on the time line.. right up till world war 2 which is our life time.. but that surely can't the last.. I mean its pretty certain that the world will keep spinning for another 2000 years..
something major must happen.. can't imagine what that will be..
but Im sure it will be serious...
probably something like, kicking everyone out the country who doesn't have blood ties to it or something like that.. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| If you've worked with asylum seekers then you would know that many of these people do actually have educations and skills. |
Sorry, but an undergrad from the State University of Somalia isn't an "education". And any skills picked up in Burma are not actually skills useful to a modern post-industrial economy.
Western states must, and will, stop absorbing so many third world individuals. We can't afford it, and at some point the political system will catch up with public opinion. Better, help a Somali settle in Kenya. A Burmese in Thailand. Etc.
When you "worked" with these people, who paid your wage? Who paid their rent? Who bought their food? Who paid for their health care? Who paid for their kids to go to school? Who? How many drains on the purse can the UK, USA et al take? Looking at California, not many. I must be the holder of bad news for you. The multi-culti world of mass immigration and free everything for anybody who shows up is coming to a rapid end. Prepare yourself emotionally for the return to sanity.
Last edited by mises on Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Do not conflate illegal economic migrants with asylum seekers. Also, see my previous post on why you should not conflate crime with the colour of a persons skin or religion |
How they enter the country in my opinion is irrelevant. Many asylum applications are clearly fraudulent, and I do not see why escaping political persecution should be thought of as morally superior to escaping grinding poverty. That said, we are a tiny country, with a massive unemployment problem, and rising social tensions. Allowing hundreds of thousands of people from culturally unassimilable cultures to enter the country makes no sense. |
Oh good lord, you aren't English are you? You're the reason I left. Isn't Stormfront a better venue for someone like you with clearly Nationalist beliefs? Although from looking at some of what is written on this current events forum, maybe your here because Stormfront was a bit too soft and you needed somewhere a bit more hardcore to post. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Isn't Stormfront a better venue for someone like you with clearly Nationalist beliefs? |
Haven't you received the memo? The win discussions with pejoratives doesn't work anymore. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| They commit crime because they are poor. |
Firstly, there are plenty of poor people, white and black who do not commit crime. The kind of crime we are talking about is much closely correlated to familial breakdown, and the fact that fatherlessness is rampant in the black community, which is also no doubt the result of rampant white racism.
Why is it that Korea, which statistically has more people living in actual poverty, does not have such rampant violent crime? |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
looking back on the past 2000 years of history there have been a lot of major changes in the world on the time line.. right up till world war 2 which is our life time.. but that surely can't the last.. I mean its pretty certain that the world will keep spinning for another 2000 years..
something major must happen.. can't imagine what that will be..
but Im sure it will be serious...
probably something like, kicking everyone out the country who doesn't have blood ties to it or something like that.. |
What the....? Heck, why don't we just usher them all into concentration camps....it'd be more economical. |
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