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comma question

 
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: comma question Reply with quote

I have two questions about the following sentence:

It must be something in your house, that you already own.

1) In this case is "that" functioning as a relative pronoun?

2) I believe that the comma is required.

Would this sentence be correct without the comma?

Thank you for any replies.
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T-Bone



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: Yongin

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comma is completely incorrect in this sentence. A comma is used for a dependent clause (among other things).

Native speakers often make this mistake -- it is reflective of the way native speakers think. In your mind (or in speech) you would make that pause, but it is punctually incorrect in a written sentence. The sentence without a comma is correct.

(See what I did with the comma there?)

It may "feel" wrong to exclude the comma, but that is because you are used to writing the way you think.

Based on the wiki article on relative pronouns, I believe you are correct (about "that" in you example). As you are aware, the wikipedia is the infallible source of all human knowledge.
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply.

I guess I think aloud and sometimes forget to ignore the use a comma when you need to pause "rule."
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ChilgokBlackHole



Joined: 21 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: comma question Reply with quote

raewon wrote:
It must be something in your house, that you already own.

Bleh. If it's your house that you already own, then the comma is inappropriate. If "that you already own" is adding more information to "something" then it's an appositive phrase used as an adjective clause, and should be set off by a comma.
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply ChilgokBlackHole.

The intention is for "that you already own" to refer back to the "something". Does that mean that T-Bone's reply is incorrect and my so-called intuition was right?
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's 1:1. Does anyone want to take sides?
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Hawkeye Pierce



Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Location: Uijeongbu

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raewon wrote:
So it's 1:1. Does anyone want to take sides?


Hi Raewon,

If you write the sentence this way, no comma is needed:

Quote:
It must be something that you already own in your house.


If you move the relative clause elsewhere in the sentence from that which it is in apposition, I think the comma is needed:

Quote:
It must be something in your house, that you already own.


As I wrote previously, I can frequently find different grammar books with different rules about comma usage in the same situation. I put the commas where I think they belong to aid the reader.

Quote:
It must be something in your house that you already own.


By omitting the comma in this example, the relative clause would be referring to "house" not "something". However, with the comma it still could be referring to house. Since even with the comma it is still not clear to what it is referring, then it was best not to have moved the clause in the sentence.
Wink
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ChilgokBlackHole



Joined: 21 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raewon wrote:
Thanks for your reply ChilgokBlackHole.

The intention is for "that you already own" to refer back to the "something". Does that mean that T-Bone's reply is incorrect and my so-called intuition was right?

Yes, you have to have the comma in that case.
Hawkeye Pierce wrote:
By omitting the comma in this example, the relative clause would be referring to "house" not "something". However, with the comma it still could be referring to house. Since even with the comma it is still not clear to what it is referring, then it was best not to have moved the clause in the sentence.

Well, of course we would all hope that someone's writing would be more precise than that.
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Hawkeye Pierce



Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Location: Uijeongbu

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChilgokBlackHole wrote:

Well, of course we would all hope that someone's writing would be more precise than that.


Unfortunately, there are the post-modernists who declare that the spoken language is the language, notwithstanding the fact that the written language is an entirely different medium. The practice of simply transcribing casual spoken English frequently does not result in clarity of expression in written form. The example given was such a case.
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