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| Is being forced to pour drinks for a man harassment? |
| yes |
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29% |
[ 7 ] |
| no |
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70% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 24 |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't that just called Confucianism here? (most of the things that drive me crazy in this country are connected with Confucianism) |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Confucianism is just an excuse for older men to get away with whatever they feel like. Its just an excuse for rudeness or stupidness. i can tell you that Confucious wouldn't approve of a lot of behaviour of the Korean males of today.
If i hear its because of Confucianism one more time from a middle-aged Korean man I will throttle him  |
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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| just because wrote: |
Confucianism is just an excuse for older men to get away with whatever they feel like. Its just an excuse for rudeness or stupidness. i can tell you that Confucious wouldn't approve of a lot of behaviour of the Korean males of today.
If i hear its because of Confucianism one more time from a middle-aged Korean man I will throttle him |
Actually, I agree in principle with you but if I hear about Confucianism from a foreigner one more time... Most of you, admit it, have never read the Analects or Mencius or know what neo-Confucianism means. A lot of the bad behavior here is bad behavior not Confucianist behavior. |
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HardyandTiny
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:21 am Post subject: Re: Sexual harassment? |
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| peppermint wrote: |
Saw this article today in the Joong Ang Daily this morning.
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The Ministry of Gender Equality announced yesterday that it will appeal a Seoul administrative court ruling that said an elementary school administrator had not engaged in sexual harassment when he ordered a female teacher to pour drinks for the school's principal.
The administrator, a vice-principal identified only as Mr. Kim, had repeatedly demanded that the teacher serve the principal at a school faculty dinner.
"This happens to many women," a ministry official said. "We are appealing to establish a precedent on sexual harassment and to stop insults to women at company dinners."
The Committee on Gender Equality Promotion, a direct department under the minister, announced last April that forcing a woman to pour alcoholic drinks continuously constituted sexual harassment.
The administrative court however, did not agree. "Even if it did contain sexual connotations, a rational person would not feel sexually abused."
According to other teachers who were at the scene, in September, 2002, faculty members of a school in Andong, North Gyeongsang province, were having dinner together, during which the principal poured everyone an alcoholic drink. After a toast, the vice principal told female teachers who were not drinking to empty their glasses and to pour the principal a drink. One teacher refused the request twice but in the end, poured the principal a drink in her own cup. She then filed a complaint to the ministry, which ordered the school to discontinue the practice. |
I'm reasonably sure that there's some aspect of Korean culture that I don't understand at play here, but I'd really appreciate some enlightenment. |
Well, I think they are playing with terms. Obviously if a woman is asked to do something she does not want to, and she is only asked to do that because she is a woman then it is sexual harrassment.
But the article says the court used the term "sexually abused" in its conclusion. The court did not properly address the charge of sexual harrassment. I am not sure why they did that. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Stupidest thing I have ever read.
They should have fired that teacher. |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Where is the "You gotta be kidding" option for this poll?
I would have to say that its more of a social custom than harrassement....also, like it was said before in this thread, too many things fall under the ever growing sexual harrassement umbrella.
I mean, what about youths having to poor drinks for their elders or employees for their bosses (male or female employees)?
Would that be age harrassement or perhaps societal harrassement.
This behavior seems to stem from cultural norms.
My wife does not pour drinks for me but I do pour drinks for her father as she does.
Am I being harrassed?
This is a slippery slope indeed. |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Once again, it's time for a visit from Petey the Sexual Harassment Panda:
"When one little panda puts his furry little willy in another panda's ear, that makes me a very sad panda."
I don't think pouring drinks for the boss would make Petey a very sad panda. I agree that they shouldn't be expected to perform such tasks, but I agree with those who say it hardly merits a visit from our favorite panda. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the new age of Korean Femi-Nazism.
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Is that what it's called when women don't want to be second class citizens any more? |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to the new age of Korean Femi-Nazism.
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Is that what it's called when women don't want to be second class citizens any more? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:00 am Post subject: |
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I read the analects in their original Chinese a few times over...
(brag brag brag...) |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Garp-Kiwi exchange:
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Quote:
Welcome to the new age of Korean Femi-Nazism.
Is that what it's called when women don't want to be second class citizens any more?
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No, it's just a Rush Limbaugh term from about twelve years ago that anti-feminists drag out when they're too lazy to write their own insults. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
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Welcome to the new age of Korean Femi-Nazism.
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Is that what it's called when women don't want to be second class citizens any more? |
It's a social custom. I guess since 90% of those posting don't work in a public/private school system you don't know that EVERYONE pours a drink, not just the woman.
The problem is the woman are usually the ones who DONT drink at these functions. I think society lets them off easy enough by not forcing them to drink, what is wrong with pouring a drink for their boss?
If they really wanted to talk harassement, it should be that woman are usually the ones to fetch coffee in the office. That ISN'T social, but a typical stereotype in place.
As I said before the female should have been fired for not being a team player. |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| What do you call birds just squawking into the wind? |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I was sort of interested in what the girls of the board would have to say about this, as well as having a Korean person explain why this is considered harassment.
Personally, I think the charge is a bit outrageous myself. It might be discrimination, but from my limited understanding there's no way it's harassment.
Korea is a long way from having equal rights for women, but I think this case is a bit of a sign that the country is about to enter that twighlight zone period, where everything a man does in relation to a woman might be construed as harassment or discrimination. For the most part feminism in the west is well past that stage. We've made the point that we don't need men, we just happen to like them.  |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Someone who takes management jargon seriously wrote:
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As I said before the female should have been fired for not being a team player.
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That's a pretty arbitrary criteria for firing someone. This woman is a teacher, so presumably she is working under a government contract. Do you think her contract specifies "pour drinks for the boss"? |
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