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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: Feminists threaten Indian democracy |
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�Women Quota Bill a Global Plot to Weaken Indian Democracy�
(IANS)
15 March 2010
LUCKNOW � Samajwadi Party chief Mulayam Singh Yadav here on Sunday said the women�s reservation bill was an �international conspiracy� to weaken Indian democracy and said it would ultimately lead to an all-women parliament that would be �alarming� for the country.
�The women�s reservation bill will eventually weaken Indian democracy and it is really unfortunate that the UPA (United Progressive Alliance) government at the centre was playing into the hands of those whose only intent was to break the backbone of Indian democracy,� Mulayam Singh said at a press conference here.
He was of the view that 33 per cent reservation for women in legislatures would finally make it a nearly all-women parliament.
�The manner in which 33 per cent seats would be reserved for women in every election, would lead to sending about 80-85 per cent women to the parliament,� he said. Terming that as an �alarming situation�, he asked, �just imagine what would be the fate of this nation in the hands of inexperienced leadership, with both Pakistan and China sitting across our borders with their own nefarious designs?�
He claimed that the reservation bill would further deprive members of the minority communities, tribals and Dalits from entering parliament or state legislatures.
�As it is, as many as a dozen states had not elected a single Muslim at the last election; therefore it was extremely important that the bill provides for reservation of some seats for women belonging to the minority community, OBCs and Dalits,� he stressed.
�I am not opposed to reservation for women, but I am opposed to the bill in its present form,� Mulayam Singh
added. � |
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Olivencia
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Women should not be allowed to vote. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Olivencia wrote: |
| Women should not be allowed to vote. |
So true. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Reservation for any specific group in a freely elected representative body is ridiculous. Personally I take issue with even the fairly small age and residency-based limitations on our own elected representatives.
If the people of India want more female representatives, they should vote for more female representatives. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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From what I can see, here are the four primary arguments for why women should have a parliament quota in India (taken from India Together):
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| The arguments in favour reserved representation for women are manifold, and by now familiar - 1) Women represent half the population of a country and have the rights to half the seats and parliamentary decisions that affect their lives. 2) Women have different social and biological experiences that ought to be represented 3) women and men have partly conflicting interests, and 4) Women in positions of power can inspire more women to take up these paths. |
Let's consider each.
| Quote: |
| 1) Women represent half the population of a country and have the rights to half the seats and parliamentary decisions that affect their lives. |
Women represent half the population, but that doesn't entitle females to half the seats in parliament. Rather, it entitles women to half the votes in the country for the election of representatives. Women should be free to use that vote in service of whatever representative they choose, even if it's a man.
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| 2) Women have different social and biological experiences that ought to be represented |
Every human has different experiences. Lung cancer victims have had different experiences than others, should they have a seat quota? Domestic abuse victims have had different experiences than other people, should they have a seat quota? The elderly have had different experiences than the currently young, should they have a seat quota? Of course we would say no to these things, and a female seat quota is just as ridiculous for the same reason. Yes, they have different social and biological experiences than men, but that doesn't mean that a man can't possibly represent constitutents with those experiences. I can't have a baby, for instance, but I can still understand -- and even agree with -- the position females take on abortion. And this goes both ways; a woman can understand the experiences of men too, and thus can serve as adequate representatives for men.
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| 3) women and men have partly conflicting interests |
As a general principle this simply isn't true. Yes, some women and some men have conflicting interests, but so do some men and some other men, or some women and some other women. And again, a representative -- male or female -- must be able to represent all of their constituents (which will include members of both genders).
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| 4) Women in positions of power can inspire more women to take up these paths. |
The purpose of parliamentary elections does not include "inspiring people." Tampering with elections to try to inspire people is blatantly ridiculous. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
From what I can see, here are the four primary arguments for why women should have a parliament quota in India (taken from India Together):
| Quote: |
| The arguments in favour reserved representation for women are manifold, and by now familiar - 1) Women represent half the population of a country and have the rights to half the seats and parliamentary decisions that affect their lives. 2) Women have different social and biological experiences that ought to be represented 3) women and men have partly conflicting interests, and 4) Women in positions of power can inspire more women to take up these paths. |
Let's consider each.
| Quote: |
| 1) Women represent half the population of a country and have the rights to half the seats and parliamentary decisions that affect their lives. |
Women represent half the population, but that doesn't entitle females to half the seats in parliament. Rather, it entitles women to half the votes in the country for the election of representatives. Women should be free to use that vote in service of whatever representative they choose, even if it's a man.
| Quote: |
| 2) Women have different social and biological experiences that ought to be represented |
Every human has different experiences. Lung cancer victims have had different experiences than others, should they have a seat quota? Domestic abuse victims have had different experiences than other people, should they have a seat quota? The elderly have had different experiences than the currently young, should they have a seat quota? Of course we would say no to these things, and a female seat quota is just as ridiculous for the same reason. Yes, they have different social and biological experiences than men, but that doesn't mean that a man can't possibly represent constitutents with those experiences. I can't have a baby, for instance, but I can still understand -- and even agree with -- the position females take on abortion. And this goes both ways; a woman can understand the experiences of men too, and thus can serve as adequate representatives for men.
| Quote: |
| 3) women and men have partly conflicting interests |
As a general principle this simply isn't true. Yes, some women and some men have conflicting interests, but so do some men and some other men, or some women and some other women. And again, a representative -- male or female -- must be able to represent all of their constituents (which will include members of both genders).
| Quote: |
| 4) Women in positions of power can inspire more women to take up these paths. |
The purpose of parliamentary elections does not include "inspiring people." Tampering with elections to try to inspire people is blatantly ridiculous. |
Seriously Fox, sometimes I think you're really just a 20-year-old political science major. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
Seriously Fox, sometimes I think you're really just a 20-year-old political science major. |
Aah, what I wouldn't give to be a 20-year-old poly sci major again. Those indeed were the days......(caniff gets misty-eyed). |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sure I could pass myself off as a 20 year old student of any discipline given the appropriate topic to discuss. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| kabrams wrote: |
Seriously Fox, sometimes I think you're really just a 20-year-old political science major. |
Aah, what I wouldn't give to be a 20-year-old poly sci major again. Those indeed were the days......(caniff gets misty-eyed). |
LOL
The world was much simpler back then... |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| I'm sure I could pass myself off as a 20 year old student of any discipline given the appropriate topic to discuss. |
Self-aware or self-deprecating? Who knows. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: |
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How can feminism threaten democracy?? its not even possible.
Thats like saying "equal rights threatens democracy". |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
How can feminism threaten democracy?? its not even possible.
Thats like saying "equal rights threatens democracy". |
I am referring to gender feminists. By their strong support of a change in the law which would remove the freedom of the electorate to freely choose whom they want to elect.
They should have equal rights to compete in elections, but the simple lack of a phallus should not be the qualifier for office. |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
How can feminism threaten democracy?? its not even possible.
Thats like saying "equal rights threatens democracy". |
| Thomas Jefferson wrote: |
| A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. |
In fact, "equal rights" are totally at odds with "democracy." The only way a government can respect equal "rights" as opposed to transient privileges is by respecting such rights regardless of whatever the majority opinion might be at any given time.
I don't understand why everyone throws around the term "democracy" like it's a good thing. How many issues do you really want determined by the whims of the majority of your region's population? Judging by the responses I see to the average crime related news story, an actual democracy would lead to a full on police state with public executions by guillotine and concentration camps for illegal immigrants within a few months of its implementation.
Regarding this particular story, it's blatantly ridiculous to set actual quotas for the demographics of "elected" officials. People prefer candidates for all kinds of shallow and largely inappropriate reasons, but you can't force them to make good decisions while still calling it an election (and that's under the assumption that female candidates are being discriminated against rather than being genuinely outclassed by other candidates, which is another totally plausible if controversial possibility).
Last edited by Street Magic on Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Fox, I think you're leaving out one key argument:
Women's status in India blows. They're in many ways secondary citizens. This would be one way to remedy that situation.
That being said, I would simply be against this policy because while they sometimes have success, they always outlive their usefulness and become more a hinderance in the long term. They're also extremely difficult to remove once in place. The prime example is Malaysia and its bumiputera policies. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Fox, I think you're leaving out one key argument:
Women's status in India blows. They're in many ways secondary citizens. This would be one way to remedy that situation. |
Okay, that's another potential reason, but I don't feel this is either the only or the best solution to remedy that. If the Indian parliament is sufficiently concerned with women's issues that's its willing to even consider a quota like this, then it's sufficiently concerned to simply tackle the issues directly (insofar as they can, of course; ultimately, this is a cultural problem that will require time and economic development to work itself out).
All Parliament can do is ensure the law is fair and just. But that doesn't require women, it just requires good representatives, be they women, men, old, young, or so forth. Beyond that, the people of India themselves have to want a change. |
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