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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Cerberus wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
Cheers. Good post.
You have to ask where all those middle class jobs went to? Mostly because of govt policy. Minimum wage makes it difficult for young or unskilled people to find work. Frankly, they aren't worth minimum wage, but probably would be if they got some on the job training. But, who wants to take that chance?
Tight regulations on zoning, permits, taxes, labor laws, licensing, on and on make it difficult and costly to start a small business.
Labor unions entrench the position of their members, whilst keeping out competition in the labor market.
Tariffs make production inputs more expensive.
Subsidies keep the wrong businesses in business, strangling capital to new firms.
Corporate welfare Out right theft from the public coffers to failing firms help govt cronies.
As you can see, I could go on like this for some time. |
believe it or not, I'm actually predeclined to your support your position, ideologically speaking.
However, I was much further in support of it until I saw what was happening in the 90's, then I traveled around the world and what happened in the 00's.
What I failed to see before being out in the real world was the constant screwing over of the average person in the rat race and the very real and growing disparities in income and wealth creation.
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Living standards still increased during this time. Mostly because of increases in technology. On average we live better now than 20 years ago. I don't see that as being screwed.
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| Then there's the tax code where Warren Buffett pays less in taxes percentage wise than his secretary (according to Warren himself) |
Who cares? He still pays many orders of magnitude more than her in real terms. His tax rate SHOULD be less. Evryone should pay the same amount in my opinion.
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| I don't care for unions and would never willingly join one, but I realize and understand the reason they even came into existence was because if they had not, you'd still be working in underage sweatshops for Nike Inc, etc etc etc etc All that has merely moved to Asia. |
I don't agree with this.
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| It's all a bit more complicated than your simplistic stance. And govt welfare, whether of the unionized, special interest or corporate variety has been around since the dawn of govt, so you're not about to make it go away anytime soon. |
Surprisingly, it is very simple. Where there are govts that provide the prerequisites for growth, then get out of the way, you usually see prosperity.
I would be happy if it would just stop growing, let alone go away altogether. |
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Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Living standards increased?
for everyone?
not quite. The last 15 years has seen the widest disparity in a very very long time between income/wealth distribution in the US. At such a pace soon they'll be like Brazil, with the wealthiest 5% owning 95% of everything.
you disagree unions came into being as a result of good old capitalist screwing over the "worker" at every turn?  |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Cerberus wrote: |
Living standards increased?
for everyone?
not quite. The last 15 years has seen the widest disparity in a very very long time between income/wealth distribution in the US. At such a pace soon they'll be like Brazil, with the wealthiest 5% owning 95% of everything.
you disagree unions came into being as a result of good old capitalist screwing over the "worker" at every turn? |
Honestly, I could give a flying crap about inequality. In the industrialised world, and in much of the third, the middle class lives better than the 5 richest Kings of Europe did 100 years ago. We have access to better health care, housing, food, transport, medicine, education, more leisure time, more opportunities. Despite the gloom and doom, life is still getting better for a huge proportion of the world's population. And you know where I will be pointing the finger for those who aren't improving.
If a few people are becoming mega wealthy, I say good for them. With one caveat being, if they got rich exploiting govt regs. Though, who can blame them for doing that?
Those people who worry about inequality, are usually those who believe that there is a fixed amount of wealth in the world. Basically as long as there is human spirit, innovation, and entrepreneurship (things govt is expert at stifling), we will have increasing wealth and with it, living standards. |
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Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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sorry, I'll go with the Kings life, thank you.
and you'd better worry about inequality.
Why?
because in extremity it's politically unsustainable.
See - Russia, 1917 as merely one example. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Cerberus wrote: |
sorry, I'll go with the Kings life, thank you.
and you'd better worry about inequality.
Why?
because in extremity it's politically unsustainable.
See - Russia, 1917 as merely one example. |
Leftist myth. And is really only made possible by govt interference in the market.
I'll take my lower middle class life style thanks very much. I'm many times more likely to live into my 80s than the king of antiquity. My health will be better. I have access to far more forms of entertainment. They didn't even have cars ffs. Maybe having tyrannical power appeals to you. A typically leftist trait. |
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Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Cerberus wrote: |
sorry, I'll go with the Kings life, thank you.
and you'd better worry about inequality.
Why?
because in extremity it's politically unsustainable.
See - Russia, 1917 as merely one example. |
Leftist myth. And is really only made possible by govt interference in the market.
I'll take my lower middle class life style thanks very much. I'm many times more likely to live into my 80s than the king of antiquity. My health will be better. I have access to far more forms of entertainment. They didn't even have cars ffs. Maybe having tyrannical power appeals to you. A typically leftist trait. |
Leftist myth? read the news much?
how did Chavez get elected in Venezuela? good old Danny boy in Nicaragua? what's his face in Ecuador?
I'm as far from leftist as one gets. Quite libertarian.
but I'm older now and have seen how life "works" to so to speak.
Dying in my 80's while crapping all over myself doesn't sound that desireable. Perhaps a heart attack in the midst of coitus while in my 70's all Viagraed up? |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Cerberus wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Cerberus wrote: |
sorry, I'll go with the Kings life, thank you.
and you'd better worry about inequality.
Why?
because in extremity it's politically unsustainable.
See - Russia, 1917 as merely one example. |
Leftist myth. And is really only made possible by govt interference in the market.
I'll take my lower middle class life style thanks very much. I'm many times more likely to live into my 80s than the king of antiquity. My health will be better. I have access to far more forms of entertainment. They didn't even have cars ffs. Maybe having tyrannical power appeals to you. A typically leftist trait. |
Dying in my 80's while crapping all over myself doesn't sound that desireable. Perhaps a heart attack in the midst of coitus while in my 70's all Viagraed up? |
Obviously option two is better, but how many kings had that option? |
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Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Cerberus wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Cerberus wrote: |
sorry, I'll go with the Kings life, thank you.
and you'd better worry about inequality.
Why?
because in extremity it's politically unsustainable.
See - Russia, 1917 as merely one example. |
Leftist myth. And is really only made possible by govt interference in the market.
I'll take my lower middle class life style thanks very much. I'm many times more likely to live into my 80s than the king of antiquity. My health will be better. I have access to far more forms of entertainment. They didn't even have cars ffs. Maybe having tyrannical power appeals to you. A typically leftist trait. |
Dying in my 80's while crapping all over myself doesn't sound that desireable. Perhaps a heart attack in the midst of coitus while in my 70's all Viagraed up? |
Obviously option two is better, but how many kings had that option? |
well if they could still get it up, they could probably try to die of a heart attack.
and when it was time to go, it was basically time to go. No useless super expensive medical treatments, surgeries and procedures.
I'll still take the life of a decent king easily going back several hundred years to the life of a middle class person today  |
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reactionary
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: korreia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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My housing is better than a king's? Why, because I have ondol? And my entertainment? Dude, concubines and on-call entertainers beat xbox 360 anyday. Kings worked 8 hours a day?
What history book are you reading?
Now, if you want to compare the middle class today compared to the middle class 100 years ago, you're right. But what about the middle class today compared to the middle class 10-20 years ago? |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| reactionary wrote: |
My housing is better than a king's? Why, because I have ondol? And my entertainment? Dude, concubines and on-call entertainers beat xbox 360 anyday. Kings worked 8 hours a day?
What history book are you reading?
Now, if you want to compare the middle class today compared to the middle class 100 years ago, you're right. But what about the middle class today compared to the middle class 10-20 years ago? |
If a king got sick, he didn't have many options. How many Kings died from TB, syphilis, influenza, pneumonia, etc.
How long did it take him to get from his cold freezing castle in Dover to his cold freezing castle in Surrey? What did he use to light the castles? What food do he eat? Probably a lot, but no where near as varied as we enjoy. He probably had to fore go fruit for much of the winter.
He would have been amazed at the variety of internet porn available to him. I don't think that many European monarchs had large harems, anyway. I believe the regency period was a time of particular debauchery, however.
The stuff we take for granted today would seem like magic to him. Being able to communicate with people on the other side of the world. Driving at 100 mile an hour in brightly colored metal boxes that play music.
One advantage a King would have, would be autonomy over his every day life. But the actual pressures and responsibilities of being a monarch would far outweigh any benefits from this. |
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