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| Is being forced to pour drinks for a man harassment? |
| yes |
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29% |
[ 7 ] |
| no |
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70% |
[ 17 ] |
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| Total Votes : 24 |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a social custom. |
One that's clearly about to change, good. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Someone who takes management jargon seriously wrote:
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As I said before the female should have been fired for not being a team player.
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That's a pretty arbitrary criteria for firing someone. This woman is a teacher, so presumably she is working under a government contract. Do you think her contract specifies "pour drinks for the boss"? |
Pretty sure she does A LOT of work that her contract doesn't cover. If she is a contract teacher, that means a 1 year teacher. At the end of the year, she'd be gone. It isn't up to the gov't but rather the principal is contract teachers stay or go.
If she is a regular teacher, just have her transferred.
I think in Korea social responsibilities are part of the job. How many Korean guys that DON'T drink, get promoted before those who DO drink?
Think about where you are. This isn't the West... |
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maxxx_power
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Location: BWAHAHAHAHA! I'M FREE!!!!!!!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
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Welcome to the new age of Korean Femi-Nazism.
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Is that what it's called when women don't want to be second class citizens any more? |
Kiwiboy I actually agree with you on this, please kill me now.
Who knows what the situation was that led up to this event. Like I wrote before there may have been a pattern of harassment or behavior that led to a hostile work environment. This may have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
Who give's a shit if it's a cultural norm? If it's offensive or keeps a certain class of people down, such as women, then it really needs to change. I'm applying American standards to the situation but when it comes to gender equality I believe the west is miles ahead of Korea (granted, we still have quite a way to go).
Cultural traits change with the times. It's no longer acceptable to do many things that were once normal. Forcing a woman to pour drinks for her boss out of male dominance or ageism, to me at least, is one of those traditions that are better off gone.
If this is just the beginning of sexual harassment (or harassment) lawsuits in Korea then they will definately have a long way to go. It's good that it's finally starting if this event leads other women, the disabled, or martians tell others to *beep* off when it comes to discrimination and harassment.
"Hey baby, your boobs really look good in that dress, next time wear some high heels, yes, and get me some coffee woman." |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Think about where you are. This isn't the West... |
Right, it's a place where spousal abuse is still commonly accepted as part of life, rapes aren't reported because the cops won't do anything, and women can't smoke in public. This incident is just part of a major movement that's about to start, like it did in the west in the 60's, called women's liberation. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I just dragged the article into class, where I had two housewives and a professor. It launched a pretty fiery discussion.
One of the housewives said that it might be harassment because a woman pouring drinks for a man used to imply a very close relationship, usually limited to family and husband. She said that attitude is changing fast, but we don't know how old the teacher in question was.
They seemed quite concerned about why the vice principal was the one forcing the issue, and not the principal. (I taught them what a "brown noser" was)
I learned that it's not uncommon for doctors to hit nurses who aren't performing their duties correctly, and it's somewhat socially accepted cause it was in an emergency situation. This led me to ask, why the doctors weren't focused on the sick patient in the emergency?
I think what it comes down to is respect. I've got a rough idea of Confuscianists have to say about respect, but I think there's a tension developing between Confuscianism and modern society.
( Before anyone jumps on me about being a colonialist westerner, I'd like to point out that my students seem to see Japanese people as the epitome of modernity and praise their manners, not Americans)
Last edited by peppermint on Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jaebea
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: SYD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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There's a problem when it's targeted at just the female teachers.
I can kinda handle the whole age thing, since your own authority grows over time (albeit slowly!). But I'm quite against this "me tarzan, you jane" business in Korea.
In this example, I'd be very offended if I was the woman teacher in the situation. I'm nothing more than a room salon hostess, not a teacher, an equal amongst her peers. Might as well be paying me for my troubles.
Ridiculous.
jae. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Pink wrote:
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Think about where you are. This isn't the West...
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The cultural relativism card isn't going to work here, Pink. This woman's case is being supported by the Ministry of Gender Equality. Now, maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but I don't think you can say they're not Koreans!!
The "cultural relativism" argument is valid against westerners who come here and think that they as outsiders have the right to openly trash the traditions in a misguided effort to enlighten the natives. But, in this case we are talking about a bureaucracy that answers to a government elected by the Korean people. They are just as Korean as the judge who ruled against the teacher.
Last edited by On the other hand on Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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I always make a point of pouring for everyone when I go out drinking with workmates, most senior first. I know next to nothing about confuscianism, it just seems like good manners, and I have no chip on my shoulder about acknowledging some people being in a higher social position.
They always pour back for me too.
I could imagine this sort of thing being a symptom of a bigger problem of disrespect, but I'd definitely like to hear more about why this is a gender thing rather than being about social standing, and pouring a drink is hardly up there with being told to massage the guy's feet. |
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Seoultrader
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Location: Ali's Insurgent Inn, Fallujah
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Next thing they'll want to vote too... |
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lush72
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: I am Penalty Kick!
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
I read the analects in their original Chinese a few times over...
(brag brag brag...) |
Goddamn man! Your one sharp guy! I WISH I had the linguistic ability you have! Mithridates, how many languages do you know? Are your parents multilingual as well? (The old genetics vs. environment argument)
My wife is an interpreter for the Korean government. She is fluent in English and Japanese. I wish I had that ability! Her younger brother is fluent in English- and his only exposure outside of school was AFN!!!
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scarneck
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:05 am Post subject: |
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I'm hip, he's one person I'd like to meet...I'm in awe..  |
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