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saram_
Joined: 13 May 2008
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 Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: Ko-Am Gang Members-Turned-English Teachers Busted |
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Stop me if you�ve heard this before.
Police have busted a 26-year-old Korean-American Mr. Lee, who fled to Korea soon after allegedly murdering another Korean-American at an LA Koreatown cafe in July 2006.
Wanted by Interpol, Lee � a dual national who was active in a Korean gang in LA � changed his name and was working as an English teacher at a famous language hagwon in Gangnam.
Oh, it gets better � another 26-year-old Mr. Lee, who was deported from the US after being charged with attempted murder and drug violations � was arrested by police on charges of smuggling in mass quantities of crystal meth and pot.
He, too, was a former member of a Korean gang in LA, and was working as an English teacher when caught.
According to MBC, the pair used fake degrees gotten from the Internet to gain employment at famous hagwon in the Seoul area.
And who said gyopo didn�t cause many drug problems? Oh, that�s right � he did.
MBC also reported that nine unqualified English teachers were busted for habitually doing drugs, and police plan to expand their investigation of hagwon English teachers.
The Segye Ilbo has more if you care to read it, including this quote by a police official, �Language hagwon, getting on the English education boom bandwagon, have recently been indiscriminately hiring native speaking teachers. We must strengthen screening of educations and career histories when hiring English teachers.�
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2010/03/23/wanted-ko-an-gang-members-turned-english-teachers-busted/ |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Ko-Am Gang Members-Turned-English Teachers Busted |
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The problem is not the screening of English teachers (E2) but the LACK of screening for returning Korean Nationals or those of Korean decent (F4) who ride the "English education boom bandwagon" without adequate screening.
The problem lies in the fact that immigration is tasked with the screening process instead of the education office ergo returning K-nationals and F4s slide through the cracks since they do not face the same screening that E2s do by immigration.
If the education office was tasked with the job of screening ALL education workers (public and private) AND they did their job properly AND there was adequate enforcement THEN problems like this would largely disappear. (read: teaching licenses).
I am NOT suggesting any change in the requirements for teachers, just adequate screening and licensing of ALL teachers to preclude the holes that currently exist in the system. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, the blame here lies with the Hagwon, not the education office.
All public school positions, SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK, etc... have the same requirements to teach regardless of VISA status.
Where people fall through the cracks is in the Hagwons, a business NOT a school. If the hagwon decides to hire someone with an F Visa, without properly checking their background, then its the Hagwon's fault.
I fail to see how immigration has any fault here. You always hear cases of criminals teaching English and more times than not, they are working at hagwons, not public schools. It is the Hagwon's failure to properfly background check their employees. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ko-Am Gang Members-Turned-English Teachers Busted |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
The problem is not the screening of English teachers (E2) but the LACK of screening for returning Korean Nationals or those of Korean decent (F4) who ride the "English education boom bandwagon" without adequate screening.
The problem lies in the fact that immigration is tasked with the screening process instead of the education office ergo returning K-nationals and F4s slide through the cracks since they do not face the same screening that E2s do by immigration.
If the education office was tasked with the job of screening ALL education workers (public and private) AND they did their job properly AND there was adequate enforcement THEN problems like this would largely disappear. (read: teaching licenses).
I am NOT suggesting any change in the requirements for teachers, just adequate screening and licensing of ALL teachers to preclude the holes that currently exist in the system. |
They don't face the same screening because they're not guaranteed to go into the same employment. F-series (2/4/5) can work at anything, not just teaching English and many do. So screening them like E2s is pointless.
They're a completely different class of visa, and I don't know what country you've been to that applies identical screening to every single class of visa, but I haven't seen one yet. |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Ko-Am Gang Members-Turned-English Teachers Busted |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
The problem is not the screening of English teachers (E2) but the LACK of screening for returning Korean Nationals or those of Korean decent (F4) who ride the "English education boom bandwagon" without adequate screening.
The problem lies in the fact that immigration is tasked with the screening process instead of the education office ergo returning K-nationals and F4s slide through the cracks since they do not face the same screening that E2s do by immigration.
If the education office was tasked with the job of screening ALL education workers (public and private) AND they did their job properly AND there was adequate enforcement THEN problems like this would largely disappear. (read: teaching licenses).
I am NOT suggesting any change in the requirements for teachers, just adequate screening and licensing of ALL teachers to preclude the holes that currently exist in the system. |
They don't face the same screening because they're not guaranteed to go into the same employment. F-series (2/4/5) can work at anything, not just teaching English and many do. So screening them like E2s is pointless.
They're a completely different class of visa, and I don't know what country you've been to that applies identical screening to every single class of visa, but I haven't seen one yet. |
did you even read what he wrote? |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Ko-Am Gang Members-Turned-English Teachers Busted |
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| blackjack wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
The problem is not the screening of English teachers (E2) but the LACK of screening for returning Korean Nationals or those of Korean decent (F4) who ride the "English education boom bandwagon" without adequate screening.
The problem lies in the fact that immigration is tasked with the screening process instead of the education office ergo returning K-nationals and F4s slide through the cracks since they do not face the same screening that E2s do by immigration.
If the education office was tasked with the job of screening ALL education workers (public and private) AND they did their job properly AND there was adequate enforcement THEN problems like this would largely disappear. (read: teaching licenses).
I am NOT suggesting any change in the requirements for teachers, just adequate screening and licensing of ALL teachers to preclude the holes that currently exist in the system. |
They don't face the same screening because they're not guaranteed to go into the same employment. F-series (2/4/5) can work at anything, not just teaching English and many do. So screening them like E2s is pointless.
They're a completely different class of visa, and I don't know what country you've been to that applies identical screening to every single class of visa, but I haven't seen one yet. |
did you even read what he wrote? |
Yes.
Immigration screens English teachers on E2s because their only purpose for being here is teaching English. That is why its immigration's job to screen them and not the education's office. If they fail the screen there is no point in them getting the visa in the first place. Since they first have to go through immigration to get to the authority of the education office, it makes sense to have immigration screen them.
The education office sets whatever standards it wants internally for people. People on F-series get the same standard applied to them as native Koreans would. Teachers already can be licensed or get a certificate from the Education office. People working at hagwons are supposed to be registered like that, but given how many there are its hard for the education office to crack down on hagwons that don't force f-series to register.
He starts off by claiming that the problem is the lack of screening on returning nationals and F4s (which in turn also covers F2/5s) but then changes to say he wants all teachers screened. So I'm not quite sure what his target is for screening. Is the problem just the first group or everybody? Do you think the mass amount of Korean teachers would accept that level of screening? Since the visa laws allow F-series to more or less work like Koreans and takes immigration out of the employment process, the laws for native korean workers and f-series are more or less the same. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Actually, the blame here lies with the Hagwon, not the education office.
All public school positions, SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK, etc... have the same requirements to teach regardless of VISA status.
Where people fall through the cracks is in the Hagwons, a business NOT a school. If the hagwon decides to hire someone with an F Visa, without properly checking their background, then its the Hagwon's fault.
I fail to see how immigration has any fault here. You always hear cases of criminals teaching English and more times than not, they are working at hagwons, not public schools. It is the Hagwon's failure to properfly background check their employees. |
For about the bazillionth time, the hagweons conduct a business teaching something to children. I'm not harping at pkang here as I agree with that poster. I'm castigating the sheer stupidity of the system in place now. If the Immigration authorities consider working at a hagweon to be teaching, which they obviously do as they grant us non-Han-type people a teaching visa to work at said businesses, then they can also require the same checks for the Han-type persons. Better yet, the Education Law can be changed to require that anyone working at a hagweon undergo background checks. That should also include the owners and directors.
The visa laws can also be changed to restrict F-series holders from working at hagweons without having a specific F visa which permits such employment. The "permission to work at a school or hagweon" can just be an addenedum, something along the line of "F-4S (F-4 visa, also permitted to work at a school)."
Another way to stop the number of criminals holding F-series visas from coming to Korea is simply to require background checks for them too. If they don't pass the background check, then they lose eligibility for the F-series visa.
This is not as hard as the Korean government is making it out to be. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
The visa laws can also be changed to restrict F-series holders from working at hagweons without having a specific F visa which permits such employment. The "permission to work at a school or hagweon" can just be an addenedum, something along the line of "F-4S (F-4 visa, also permitted to work at a school)."
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Makes sense to me. All Korean Nationals and foreigners married to Koreans who have no intention of teaching English can get a standard F2/4 visa. Those you plan to teach (whether presently or in the future) would be required to apply for a F-4(S) visa which would require background checks.
However, I think its one of those things that look good on paper, but won't work smoothly. It would still be up to the Hagwon to ultimately check whether someone is qualified to teach on their F visa. Some hagwons don't even check F visa holders' background. Do you expect them to follow the F-4(S) visa policy?
The onus is STILL on the hagwon to make sure they hire qualified teachers. There in lies the fundamental problem. It would be much easier with fewer bureaucracy to simply get Hagwons to accept CRC's, Medical Checks, and etc... from their applicants.
I think a hagwon is in a much better position to investigate their employees' credentials than it would be immigration/education office which would be required to do so with hundreds/thousands of teachers. A hagwon making a few phone calls for a handful of employees with F visas, or a government agency checking up on thousands of teachers. Its a no brainer which one is easier and more effective.
Pass a law that tells Hagwons they had better check the background of their employees, or else face a fine or revocation of their business license. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| And enforce the fine and license revokation. The key here, really, is enforcement. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ko-Am Gang Members-Turned-English Teachers Busted |
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[quote="crossmr"]
| blackjack wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
did you even read what he wrote? |
Yes.
Immigration screens English teachers on E2s because their only purpose for being here is teaching English. That is why its immigration's job to screen them and not the education's office. If they fail the screen there is no point in them getting the visa in the first place. Since they first have to go through immigration to get to the authority of the education office, it makes sense to have immigration screen them.
The education office sets whatever standards it wants internally for people. People on F-series get the same standard applied to them as native Koreans would. Teachers already can be licensed or get a certificate from the Education office. People working at hagwons are supposed to be registered like that, but given how many there are its hard for the education office to crack down on hagwons that don't force f-series to register.
He starts off by claiming that the problem is the lack of screening on returning nationals and F4s (which in turn also covers F2/5s) but then changes to say he wants all teachers screened. So I'm not quite sure what his target is for screening. Is the problem just the first group or everybody? Do you think the mass amount of Korean teachers would accept that level of screening? Since the visa laws allow F-series to more or less work like Koreans and takes immigration out of the employment process, the laws for native korean workers and f-series are more or less the same. |
NO, YOU MISSED the point.
My point was that E2 are already screened by immi.
F2/5 visa applicants ARE screened by immi.
Koreans nationals and F4's are NOT.
Screening of ALL teachers SHOULD be moved from immigration to the office of education (like it is in most countries).
ALL teachers (not just E2s) and including hakwon teachers should be checked and then licensed by the education office to prevent or at least minimize things like this from occurring.
My post was NOT a rant about checking F4s.
I see no reason to check K-nationals or F4s who are not engaged in education.
. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
Actually, the blame here lies with the Hagwon, not the education office.
All public school positions, SMOE, GEPIK, EPIK, etc... have the same requirements to teach regardless of VISA status.
Where people fall through the cracks is in the Hagwons, a business NOT a school. If the hagwon decides to hire someone with an F Visa, without properly checking their background, then its the Hagwon's fault.
I fail to see how immigration has any fault here. You always hear cases of criminals teaching English and more times than not, they are working at hagwons, not public schools. It is the Hagwon's failure to properfly background check their employees. |
Even if I hire F-visa I still need a criminal background, it's just easier to skirt.
Every person hired in the Education Industry needs to get his health and criminal background checked, irregardless of what visa type they are on. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Ko-Am Gang Members-Turned-English Teachers Busted |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
NO, YOU MISSED the point.
My point was that E2 are already screened by immi.
F2/5 visa applicants ARE screened by immi.
Koreans nationals and F4's are NOT.
Screening of ALL teachers SHOULD be moved from immigration to the office of education (like it is in most countries).
ALL teachers (not just E2s) and including hakwon teachers should be checked and then licensed by the education office to prevent or at least minimize things like this from occurring.
My post was NOT a rant about checking F4s.
I see no reason to check K-nationals or F4s who are not engaged in education.
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F2s are not significantly screened by immi. They aren't required to pass any kind of background check. F5s undergo an extensive background check. And its already required (see below), just not every hagwon follows the rules. But there is a system in place to report those hagwons. the more that are reported the more that will follow the rules. The laws exist, the system exists, do you want someone to push the buttons on the phone for you to make it happen?
| Quote: |
Even if I hire F-visa I still need a criminal background, it's just easier to skirt.
Every person hired in the Education Industry needs to get his health and criminal background checked, irregardless of what visa type they are on. |
| Quote: |
| The visa laws can also be changed to restrict F-series holders from working at hagweons without having a specific F visa which permits such employment. The "permission to work at a school or hagweon" can just be an addenedum, something along the line of "F-4S (F-4 visa, also permitted to work at a school)." |
Employment of F-series is not an immigration issue. There would never be a different kind of f-series for people who want to work in education. The ministry already requires all teachers register with them and be checked, but its not well enforced in the hagwon industry. They don't have the manpower to do that. |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| As ttompatz said, these people were dual citizens who came to Korea as Korean citizens to hide. Therefore, K-immigration wouldn't have anything to do with these people. |
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Goon-Yang
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Duh
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| Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
The visa laws can also be changed to restrict F-series holders from working at hagweons without having a specific F visa which permits such employment. The "permission to work at a school or hagweon" can just be an addenedum, something along the line of "F-4S (F-4 visa, also permitted to work at a school)."
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Huh and here I thought they already did that. When I got my F-2 (ages ago) I had to also apply for an E visa. They gave me an F-2-1 visa. MEaning an F visa, but I'm a registered teacher.
Do they do that still? |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 am Post subject: |
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KYOPO huh... Im sure the news will just showcase the Illegal Native teachers(non Korean) and leave the kyopo in the shadows...
for some reason the media love to show how bad we are and no so much the Korean bloods... Unless they are famous! |
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