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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| Who has been abused or exploited by their employers since they arrived in Korea? |
| Yes I have |
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69% |
[ 111 ] |
| No I have not |
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30% |
[ 48 ] |
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| Total Votes : 159 |
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| Author |
Message |
Kurtz
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Location: ples bilong me
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 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| The Gipkik wrote: |
| Basically, I just tell the school that I am going to leave and the tables turn. This should be the situation with everyone. Why isn't it? |
Generally, the big problems happen for people during their first year. Most people don't have a lot of money saved up, so if they put in their notice, they find themselves broke, without a home and afraid of having problems with immigration. |
+3
I think you boys talking tough are all over 30, with years of teaching experience, right?
Please spare a thought for the "Mikes" of the world. You see, Mike just finished college, he's got himself a nasty debt and wants to pay it off. Reading about a "fantastic opportunity" to live and teach in Sparkling Corea, and stupidly thinking that thing he signed actually means something to his employer, as that's how things are done in Canada, off he goes on his big adventure.
Now in Korea, he finds the contract he signed is about as worthless as his Biology Degree, his nice friendly hagwon boss is making him do all kinds of extra things and a no means being threatened with termination of his employment. Being in debt, having no idea about his legal options in this country where he can't even order a Big Mac without help, he feels a little helpless and allows himself to get pushed around.
Perhaps some of you guys with options who can jump on a plane and click your fingers and get a job instantly might need to take some peyote and jump in a sense depravation floatation tank to dream up the above scenario, but it might be more common than you can imagine.
Tough *beep*? have a little heart for the "others" |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| The Gipkik wrote: |
| Basically, I just tell the school that I am going to leave and the tables turn. This should be the situation with everyone. Why isn't it? |
Generally, the big problems happen for people during their first year. Most people don't have a lot of money saved up, so if they put in their notice, they find themselves broke, without a home and afraid of having problems with immigration. |
I do sympathize with this situation and I understand how someone could get caught with their pants down, figuratively speaking. But we're traveling so far away from everything we know and care about. Often times, we're going into a country alone, no friends, no contacts apart from the job. This is a very vulnerable situation. I always have a plan B. Everyone should at least have a good credit card that has plenty of available funds if the job or country isn't a good fit.
Yes, I am over 30 and in my first few years I did take positions that I wasn't crazy about, but being "exploited" would really, really upset me and I'd quit no matter what. I always go into a position with the belief that I am indispensable. If I don't get that feeling, I'll start looking for another job. That's just me. Okay, I've got an incredibly supportive family, so I'll never get stuck and I know many people don't have this level of support so I do sympathize. Just have a plan B...and C and D if possible. |
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ChilgokBlackHole
Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Kurtz wrote: |
| Tough *beep*? have a little heart for the "others" |
I feel for the others. But I can't say as I have any sympathy for them. It's important to learn for yourself, by vacation, or through a working vacation, how well you travel. From my experience working in Canada, there are some people who just don't travel well.
People from back home ask me about this job. I tell them to fly to Chicago and go to Chinatown. Get a hotel. Eat three meals a day for a week. Don't speak English.
If you can handle it without cheating, then by all means, the ROK is open. If you can't. Then maybe Starbucks really is better for you.
| Kurtz wrote: |
| I think you boys talking tough are all over 30, with years of teaching experience, right? |
(I am over 30, with years of teaching experience.) |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Kurtz wrote: |
| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| The Gipkik wrote: |
| Basically, I just tell the school that I am going to leave and the tables turn. This should be the situation with everyone. Why isn't it? |
Generally, the big problems happen for people during their first year. Most people don't have a lot of money saved up, so if they put in their notice, they find themselves broke, without a home and afraid of having problems with immigration. |
+3
I think you boys talking tough are all over 30, with years of teaching experience, right?
Please spare a thought for the "Mikes" of the world. You see, Mike just finished college, he's got himself a nasty debt and wants to pay it off. Reading about a "fantastic opportunity" to live and teach in Sparkling Corea, and stupidly thinking that thing he signed actually means something to his employer, as that's how things are done in Canada, off he goes on his big adventure.
Now in Korea, he finds the contract he signed is about as worthless as his Biology Degree, his nice friendly hagwon boss is making him do all kinds of extra things and a no means being threatened with termination of his employment. Being in debt, having no idea about his legal options in this country where he can't even order a Big Mac without help, he feels a little helpless and allows himself to get pushed around.
Perhaps some of you guys with options who can jump on a plane and click your fingers and get a job instantly might need to take some peyote and jump in a sense depravation floatation tank to dream up the above scenario, but it might be more common than you can imagine.
Tough *beep*? have a little heart for the "others" |
I think my violin fell into my keyboard - so sorry. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: |
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The fact of the matter, and indeed this poll that I started, is that empirical evidence over years and years has demonstrated teachers have been exploited and that contractual problems are not exceptions but rather the rule (at some point or other).
This is nothing to do with 'travelling proper' as you call it. And your advice is pretty ridiculous as well (irrespective of the subject in hand) I have to say. People on this board expect people who are faced with unworkable conditions and no pay to react with some kind of higher moral dignity. And the emphasis on the rhetoric always changes: it is never a matter of unassailable working conditions in a country which, again empirically speaking, is extremely hard to get anything done in these situations; it becomes of a matter of cultural apadtation conveniently absolving Korea from responsibilty in these situations.
Take your head out of your arse for a moment will you and look at the results of the poll.
| ChilgokBlackHole wrote: |
| Kurtz wrote: |
| Tough *beep*? have a little heart for the "others" |
I feel for the others. But I can't say as I have any sympathy for them. It's important to learn for yourself, by vacation, or through a working vacation, how well you travel. From my experience working in Canada, there are some people who just don't travel well.
People from back home ask me about this job. I tell them to fly to Chicago and go to Chinatown. Get a hotel. Eat three meals a day for a week. Don't speak English.
If you can handle it without cheating, then by all means, the ROK is open. If you can't. Then maybe Starbucks really is better for you.
| Kurtz wrote: |
| I think you boys talking tough are all over 30, with years of teaching experience, right? |
(I am over 30, with years of teaching experience.) |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Who has been abused or exploited by their employers... |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
...since they arrived in Korea?
By abused I mean lied to, had money not paid to them, had money paid late, had documents withheld from them, been forced to work illegally, forced to live in sub-standard accommodation, had to fight for basic amenities stated in their contract such as health insurance and pension, been threatened, been asked to do special 'favours' (ie something ridiculous) outside of their contracts or in the name of culture eg unpaid overtime or cleaning phaeces outside of their room etc etc
You get the general idea. It doesn't have to be one of the above but the offences commited in this country are numerous and therefore too many to list individually, I am sure you'll appreciate.
Lets put this to the test as numerous posters seem to think that people are either a) just imagining these episodes, b) have too much time on their hands and just go around making these things up for fun, c) hold a vendetta against Korea for no apparent reason.
It is quite clearly obvious that these offences happpens far too frequently.
Its a disgrace that they happen at all in my opinion. |
This is an old post so I can't remember if said this before but is this a rhetorical question?
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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sheba
Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
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(Im not going to read all the previous pages but just wanted to add my 2 cents).
Have had 3 employers, only one of them was crap. |
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Kurtz
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Location: ples bilong me
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| Kurtz wrote: |
| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| The Gipkik wrote: |
| Basically, I just tell the school that I am going to leave and the tables turn. This should be the situation with everyone. Why isn't it? |
Generally, the big problems happen for people during their first year. Most people don't have a lot of money saved up, so if they put in their notice, they find themselves broke, without a home and afraid of having problems with immigration. |
+3
I think you boys talking tough are all over 30, with years of teaching experience, right?
Please spare a thought for the "Mikes" of the world. You see, Mike just finished college, he's got himself a nasty debt and wants to pay it off. Reading about a "fantastic opportunity" to live and teach in Sparkling Corea, and stupidly thinking that thing he signed actually means something to his employer, as that's how things are done in Canada, off he goes on his big adventure.
Now in Korea, he finds the contract he signed is about as worthless as his Biology Degree, his nice friendly hagwon boss is making him do all kinds of extra things and a no means being threatened with termination of his employment. Being in debt, having no idea about his legal options in this country where he can't even order a Big Mac without help, he feels a little helpless and allows himself to get pushed around.
Perhaps some of you guys with options who can jump on a plane and click your fingers and get a job instantly might need to take some peyote and jump in a sense depravation floatation tank to dream up the above scenario, but it might be more common than you can imagine.
Tough *beep*? have a little heart for the "others" |
I think my violin fell into my keyboard - so sorry. |
Mr one-liner, I think you can do better than that, violin routine a little over done isn't it?!
For the record, I'm over 30. Thought I'd just make up a little scene and see how people reacted.
To actually answer the question, been threatened with the sack "IF I was ever late", and some issues with a co-worker, other than not, no problems, especially with money. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Kurtz wrote: |
To actually answer the question, been threatened with the sack "IF I was ever late", and some issues with a co-worker, other than not, no problems, especially with money. |
With all due respect Kurtz, this is where we differ. If I ever had an employer throw me that "IF I was ever late" line, I'd be packing. Contracts shouldn't be prisons and employees shouldn't work in what I would call "sweatshops." In Canada, many employers bully their workers with the belief that they're disposable. I've seen it again and again. I never accepted it there and I won't accept it anywhere else. I'm not strident or aggressive at work. In fact, I am the chillest dude you're ever likely to meet, but there are lines. And those lines are deep.
FYI, I've never broken a contract yet. And 13 years teaching around the world is not lucky. There are ways to handle these situations, but first, choose wisely. |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by languistic on Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChilgokBlackHole
Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| stevieg4ever wrote: |
| Take your head out of your arse for a moment will you and look at the results of the poll. |
You are beyond help. |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| languistic wrote: |
Yeah, like many of us were never in that situation. Foolish post. Many of us here didn't have the internet (yes, when the internet - and Dave's - were all but a slow-loading page or two) to cry on or get any information or assistance. Guess what? We survived. You people have no recourse at all; everything you need to know is right at your fingertips, both now that you are here and before you came.
Entitled whiners; that pretty much sums up this thread. |
So, because we have access to the internet, being overworked, not being payed, being lied to or any of the other common practices of hagwon employers are nothing to worry about? This is like saying because everyone now has access to penicilin, you shouldn't whine about getting shot.
Granted, if someone comes on and complains that they weren't given a tv or a toaster oven, this is a bit of a stupid complaint. Expecting decent working conditions and agreed upon pay and being pissed off when either of those are absent seems like a pretty natural reaction.
What exactly do you suggest? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The fact of the matter, and indeed this poll that I started, is that empirical evidence over years and years has demonstrated teachers have been exploited and that contractual problems are not exceptions but rather the rule (at some point or other). |
This poll of yours is NOT empirical evidence. It demonstrates nothing because it is not a sound poll by scientific standards. It is based on a site where people have numerous accounts and hence can vote multiple times.
But you can consider it proof of something if you wish.
All applicants and Teachers should do their homework and reduce the risk of landing a bad job. Some people do end up in bad spots and go through difficult times.
Many others have not had any real full-time job before, especially not as a Teacher, and hit a pretty rough wall when they learn what it requires to be a teacher day in and day out.
Finally, the poll sure does not consider the fact that most people that are happy with their work do not write online about it and hence do not vote. So, this poll's margin or error is probably so significant that it invalidates any results from a conclusive and statistically meaningful standpoint. |
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languistic
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by languistic on Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The fact of the matter, and indeed this poll that I started, is that empirical evidence over years and years has demonstrated teachers have been exploited and that contractual problems are not exceptions but rather the rule (at some point or other). |
This poll of yours is NOT empirical evidence. It demonstrates nothing because it is not a sound poll by scientific standards. It is based on a site where people have numerous accounts and hence can vote multiple times.
. |
Good point.
Which is why I bolded this for reading comprehension.
And this is exactly why the poll means nothing.
Bottom line. People are only abused and exploited if they set themselves up to be.
If one come over here with no cash and no other options then I have no sympathy. Only a complete moron flies half-way around the world without a plan B.
And Mr. ChilgokBlackHole also pretty much summed it up. |
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