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Patrick Hanley
Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: GRammer question |
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I was asked today why I can say "have others rolling with laughter" they were wondering why I can use the '-ing' form of the base verb but yoiu can't say it with "make others rolling with laughter" I could think of why this is can anyone help.
Mondays this is the last thing I want |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I was asked today why I can say "have others rolling with laughter" they were wondering why I can use the '-ing' form of the base verb but yoiu can't say it with "make others rolling with laughter" I could think of why this is can anyone help. |
You're asking for logical reasons behind an idiom! Big mistake. But I'll venture a guess on Monday morning too...
I would say that here you are having something in the sense of "experience the event of something happening." You have a good time. Or, you have in the sense of indirectly causing something to happen. I will have you on your feet and dancing in no time! I suppose you could say you have others roll with laughter, but it lacks the sense of immediacy and isn't the standard idiom.
You can make people roll with laughter, but not make them rolling with laughter. I suppose it's just a limitation of the verb make. I can't think of an example of make with an -ing (make x skiing) except where it's part of a compound noun (make rolling papers). |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I was asked today why I can say "have others rolling with laughter" they were wondering why I can use the '-ing' form of the base verb but yoiu can't say it with "make others rolling with laughter" I could think of why this is can anyone help. |
You're asking for logical reasons behind an idiom! Big mistake. But I'll venture a guess on Monday morning too... |
Is it really an idiom?
With "to make" the object is the person, and the verb is what you're making them do rather than part of the object of the sentence. With "to have" the second verb itself is part of the object, so it takes a gerund form. That seems like reasonably standard grammar to me. |
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the ireland
Joined: 11 May 2008
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's going to say it first??? |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: GRammer question |
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| Patrick Hanley wrote: |
I was asked today why I can say "have others rolling with laughter" they were wondering why I can use the '-ing' form of the base verb but yoiu can't say it with "make others rolling with laughter" I could think of why this is can anyone help.
Mondays this is the last thing I want |
I'm thinking "make others..." has more of an action focused vibe to it while "have others..." can either set up an action or have more of an ongoing tinge, making the latter sound better with gerunds. Creation ("make") has a one-off sense to it while possession ("have") implies more of an ongoing state. The exceptions to "have" where it can be used like "make" seem to come from the verb getting co-opted as another word for "must," probably because people started to use "have to" as shorthand for "have a duty to." |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I should perhaps not have said idiom. Maybe an expression would be better; no one is likely rolling. The common link is that these fixed sayings often have a peculiar grammar to them that is difficult to reason out. But I'll defer to the more clinical explanations given. |
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FMPJ
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| the ireland wrote: |
| Who's going to say it first??? |
Oooh, oooh! Me!
Grammar. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Salesman: May I speak to your mother?
Boy: She ain't here.
Salesman: Little boy, where's your grammar!
Boy: She ain't here neither. |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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| Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| FMPJ wrote: |
| the ireland wrote: |
| Who's going to say it first??? |
Oooh, oooh! Me!
Grammar. |
Beat me to it 
At first I thought it was a joke. |
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the ireland
Joined: 11 May 2008
Location: korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Triban wrote: |
| FMPJ wrote: |
| the ireland wrote: |
| Who's going to say it first??? |
Oooh, oooh! Me!
Grammar. |
Beat me to it
At first I thought it was a joke. |
you can both have my love and three stickers  |
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