|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
saram_
Joined: 13 May 2008
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: Moscow Metro hit by deadly suicide bombings! |
 |
|
What kind of world are we living in!!
Two female suicide bombers bomb up two trains in two very busy subway stations in rush hour Moscow
At least 35 people have been killed after two female suicide bombers blew themselves up on Moscow Metro trains in the morning rush hour, officials say.
Twenty-three died in the first blast at 0756 (0356 GMT) as a train stood at the central Lubyanka station, beneath the offices of the FSB intelligence agency.
About 40 minutes later, a second explosion ripped through a train at Park Kultury, leaving another 12 dead.
No-one has said they carried out the worst attack in the capital since 2004.
We can assume that belts with explosive devices were attached to their bodies
Yuri Syomin
Moscow Chief Prosecutor
But the BBC's Richard Galpin in the Russian capital says past suicide bombings there have been blamed on Islamist rebels fighting for independence in the troubled North Caucasus region of Chechnya.
In February, Chechen rebel president Doku Umarov warned that "the zone of military operations will be extended to the territory of Russia... the war is coming to their cities".
Moscow's metro is one of the busiest subways in the world, carrying some 5.5m passengers a day.
'No fire'
Emergency services ministry spokeswoman Irina Andrianova said the first explosion tore through the second carriage of a train as it stood at Lubyanka at the peak of the rush hour.
Amateur video of Kultury aftermath
The station, on both the busy Sokolnicheskaya and Tagansko-Krasnopresnenskaya lines, is close to the headquarters of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB).
The BBC Russian Service's Yuri Maloverian at Lubyanka station says there are still ambulances on the scene although all the wounded have been transported to local hospitals.
The second blast at Park Kultury, which is six stops away from Lubyanka on the Sokolnicheskaya line, came at 0838 (0438 GMT). It struck at the back of the train as people were getting on board.
"According to preliminary information provided by the Federal Security Service, two female suicide bombers were involved," Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov told reporters gathered outside Park Kultury.
In the Park Kultury blast, the bomber was wearing a belt packed with plastic explosives and set it off as the train's doors opened, a spokesman for Russia's top investigative body said.
Federal prosecutors said they had opened an investigation into "suspected acts of terrorism".
The entire Metro system has been closed down as a precaution, while the Russian civil aviation regulator has ordered all local airports to increase security.
Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who is currently visiting Siberia, is "receiving detailed information from security agencies and social services about the work on helping the victims", a spokesman said.
Russian forces have scored a series of successes against militants in recent weeks. In February, at least 20 insurgents were reportedly killed in an operation by Russian security forces in Ingushetia.
There was a major attack on the Moscow Metro in February 2004, when at least 39 people were killed by a bomb on a packed train as it approached the Paveletskaya Metro station.
Six months later, a suicide bomber blew herself up outside a station, killing 10 people. Both attacks were blamed on Chechen rebels.
In November, the Caucasian Mujahadeen claimed responsibility for a bomb that killed 26 people on board an express train travelling from Moscow to Russia's second city of St Petersburg. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
darkjedidave
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai/Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Even more proof religion only brings evil into the world |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.slate.com/id/2249122/
This slate article talks about what women get in the afterlife, since its men who get the 72 virgins. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| darkjedidave wrote: |
| Even more proof religion only brings evil into the world |
This attack was claimed by the Chechens. Religion is not relevant.
Even more proof that anti-religious bigotry only brings incorrect assumptions into the world  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| .38 Special wrote: |
| Religion is not relevant. |
While I agree there's more to the story, to say religion is irrelevant here is a little naive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| .38 Special wrote: |
| darkjedidave wrote: |
| Even more proof religion only brings evil into the world |
This attack was claimed by the Chechens. Religion is not relevant.
Even more proof that anti-religious bigotry only brings incorrect assumptions into the world |
Oh, so the Chechans aren't muslim? And Russians aren't orthodox? Yeah, I'm sure religion has no bearing on their differences whatsoever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
| darkjedidave wrote: |
| Even more proof religion only brings evil into the world |
This attack was claimed by the Chechens. Religion is not relevant.
Even more proof that anti-religious bigotry only brings incorrect assumptions into the world |
Oh, so the Chechans aren't muslim? And Russians aren't orthodox? Yeah, I'm sure religion has no bearing on their differences whatsoever. |
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that three generations of crushing oppression, democide, and economic theft are what's behind the Chechen separatist movement.
To insist that Islam is the cause is bigoted. If the Chechens were Christians, would it be "Christian Extremism?" Where was the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the Mujaheddin repelled those Atheist Extremist Russians?
Simply because there are Muslims in a country does not make a case of violent separatism a religions matter. That the bombers exploded themselves does not make them themselves Muslim (for all we know, they were Alf-like kittenovore mercenaries hired by Chechnya).
What's so naive, pray tell, about refusing to assume that someone's religion is relevant to their desire to be independent from a cruel master when little evidence is proffered to the contrary? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| .38 Special wrote: |
Simply because there are Muslims in a country does not make a case of violent separatism a religions matter. That the bombers exploded themselves does not make them themselves Muslim (for all we know, they were Alf-like kittenovore mercenaries hired by Chechnya). |
I suppose if the mastermind didn't already reveal himself to be muslim, your argument would make more sense.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/world/europe/01dagestan.html
A former Chechen separatist (Doku Umarov) who reinvented himself as a proponent of global jihad stepped out of the shadows on Wednesday to take responsibility for two suicide bombings on Moscow�s subway, and to offer himself as the face of an increasingly lethal pan-Caucasus insurgency.
...
In assuming a public role and taunting Russia with his pronouncements, Mr. Umarov seemingly played into the hands of Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin, offering evidence that the threat in the Caucasian republics was part of a broader Islamic insurgency that threatened Russia�s security.
...
In 2007, Mr. Umarov announced an ideological sea change, declaring himself the emir of the Caucasus Emirate, which aimed to establish a Shariah-based state independent of Russia.
Last April, Mr. Umarov took another decisive step by announcing the revival of Riyadus-Salikhin, or the �Garden of Martyrs,� a suicide formation once led by Shamil Basayev that had lain dormant for five years. The battalion took responsibility for a 2002 hostage-taking at a Moscow theater. Since May, 17 suicide bombings have been recorded, all but one in the Northern Caucasus, Mr. Shvedov said. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| madoka wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
Simply because there are Muslims in a country does not make a case of violent separatism a religions matter. That the bombers exploded themselves does not make them themselves Muslim (for all we know, they were Alf-like kittenovore mercenaries hired by Chechnya). |
I suppose if the mastermind didn't already reveal himself to be muslim, your argument would make more sense.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/world/europe/01dagestan.html
A former Chechen separatist (Doku Umarov) who reinvented himself as a proponent of global jihad stepped out of the shadows on Wednesday to take responsibility for two suicide bombings on Moscow�s subway, and to offer himself as the face of an increasingly lethal pan-Caucasus insurgency.
...
In assuming a public role and taunting Russia with his pronouncements, Mr. Umarov seemingly played into the hands of Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin, offering evidence that the threat in the Caucasian republics was part of a broader Islamic insurgency that threatened Russia�s security.
...
In 2007, Mr. Umarov announced an ideological sea change, declaring himself the emir of the Caucasus Emirate, which aimed to establish a Shariah-based state independent of Russia.
Last April, Mr. Umarov took another decisive step by announcing the revival of Riyadus-Salikhin, or the �Garden of Martyrs,� a suicide formation once led by Shamil Basayev that had lain dormant for five years. The battalion took responsibility for a 2002 hostage-taking at a Moscow theater. Since May, 17 suicide bombings have been recorded, all but one in the Northern Caucasus, Mr. Shvedov said. |
I gotta tell ya: I have no particular interest in this topic. What interests me is the reception of the event.
"Former seperatist" who "reinvented himself" pops up last Wednesday, and suddenly the entire separatists movement is a Jihad and not a political struggle?
Using that logic, there are a few hundred million Catholics who are about to flood the sex offenders database.
That said, the global war on "terrorism" is spreading terminal asshattery about the region. Reportedly, Al Queda has moved into the region.
I'd like to add that I do not condone the methods used by Chechen separatists. They've been slaughtering innocent people long before anyone considered using their religion as battlefield propaganda.
To me, this conversation reminds me of the Crusades, to take back the Holy Land -- centuries after the Muslims took it, but immediately after the Muslims had sacked the decidedly not-really-very-holy Constantinople. It was where the Church banked their money, however.
Suddenly, thousands of very concerned Christians (aka adventure mercenaries looking for Oriental gold) converged on Judeah!
Yet, to this day, Christianity is blamed for the Crusades.
Religion: The great historical red herring, from Byzantine to Chechnya.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| .38 Special wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
| darkjedidave wrote: |
| Even more proof religion only brings evil into the world |
This attack was claimed by the Chechens. Religion is not relevant.
Even more proof that anti-religious bigotry only brings incorrect assumptions into the world |
Oh, so the Chechans aren't muslim? And Russians aren't orthodox? Yeah, I'm sure religion has no bearing on their differences whatsoever. |
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that three generations of crushing oppression, democide, and economic theft are what's behind the Chechen separatist movement.
To insist that Islam is the cause is bigoted. If the Chechens were Christians, would it be "Christian Extremism?" Where was the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the Mujaheddin repelled those Atheist Extremist Russians?
Simply because there are Muslims in a country does not make a case of violent separatism a religions matter. That the bombers exploded themselves does not make them themselves Muslim (for all we know, they were Alf-like kittenovore mercenaries hired by Chechnya).
What's so naive, pray tell, about refusing to assume that someone's religion is relevant to their desire to be independent from a cruel master when little evidence is proffered to the contrary? |
Neither Caniff nor myself were arguing that Islam was the cause, just a contributing factor. In that way it is similar to Palestinians and Israelis. It really isn't a religous battle, but religious (and cultural) differences DO play a role. In the case of Palestine-Israel, religion has become a much bigger role in the last 10-20 years. Hopefully the same won't happen in the case of Chechnya-Russia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If they were mercenaries I don't think they would kill themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| .38 Special wrote: |
To me, this conversation reminds me of the Crusades, to take back the Holy Land -- centuries after the Muslims took it, but immediately after the Muslims had sacked the decidedly not-really-very-holy Constantinople. It was where the Church banked their money, however. |
Muslims did not sack Constantinople until 1453. They only tried to take it over once before that (50-60 years earlier). Crusaders, however, did sack it during the 4th crusade.
| Quote: |
| Yet, to this day, Christianity is blamed for the Crusades. |
So how was it not a factor? Was it not sanctioned by Pope Urban II? Did the Great Schism not play a role? What else was a uniting force for various Western Europeans? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
To me, this conversation reminds me of the Crusades, to take back the Holy Land -- centuries after the Muslims took it, but immediately after the Muslims had sacked the decidedly not-really-very-holy Constantinople. It was where the Church banked their money, however. |
Muslims did not sack Constantinople until 1453. They only tried to take it over once before that (50-60 years earlier). Crusaders, however, did sack it during the 4th crusade.
| Quote: |
| Yet, to this day, Christianity is blamed for the Crusades. |
So how was it not a factor? Was it not sanctioned by Pope Urban II? Did the Great Schism not play a role? What else was a uniting force for various Western Europeans? |
The crusades, as I understand them, were about money and political power. Religion is a powerful social force, yes, but it is also a tool to be used by the powerful.
The Muslims took the Holy Land almost immediately after their formation. That was, after all, their backyard. It would be centuries before the Crusades picked up. The Pope offered "blessings" to those within the path of the aggressively expanding Muslims to fight them, but it wasn't until the Eastern Empire was threatened that the Vatican became more active.
I hold that the Holy Land was held by Muslims (in the 7th century, the expressed reason for the Crusades as a religious conflict) for centuries before the First Crusade (12th century).
There are a lot of Muslims in the world who haven't blown themselves up and who will not blow themselves up nor will they ever have the slightest desire to explode themselves. Hundreds of millions of them, in fact.
If I blow myself up in the name of Nintendo, does that mean people who enjoy Nintendo are complicit in my madness? If I declare a Nintendo Nation in New Jersey and fly an airplane into the Bungee headquarters building, does that mean that everyone in New Jersey who plays Nintendo are in on it?
I don't take exception to the reporting of this event on this board. However, I feel it is necessary for a balancing force to contract the intense bigotry and hatred showed Jews and Muslims and sometimes Christians in many of these threads. If the idea that organized religion is not the greatest evil in the world is objectionable to you, I implore you to put me on ignore. If you think religion is responsible for some conflicts purely, we will disagree. I do not claim that organized religion is perfect, but I think it a very wide brush to paint with for the sins of a few men I believe to be psychotic and murderous independently of their religion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| If I blow myself up in the name of Nintendo, does that mean people who enjoy Nintendo are complicit in my madness? |
No, but if Nintendo was an organisation whose raison d'etre was violent insurrection, and if this organisation's mission statement was for the elimination of and subjugation of playstation and xbox users, then the company could rightly be blamed for the actions of its misguided followers.
To say that the Chechens, fighting for an Islamic state, and using Islamic texts to justify their actions are not motivated by their religion is plainly stupid, but I guess it ticks all the right 'tolerant' PC boxes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If I blow myself up in the name of Nintendo, does that mean people who enjoy Nintendo are complicit in my madness? |
No, but if Nintendo was an organisation whose raison d'etre was violent insurrection, and if this organisation's mission statement was for the elimination of and subjugation of playstation and xbox users, then the company could rightly be blamed for the actions of its misguided followers.
To say that the Chechens, fighting for an Islamic state, and using Islamic texts to justify their actions are not motivated by their religion is plainly stupid, but I guess it ticks all the right 'tolerant' PC boxes. |
I think you're missing the point: Nintendo is the religion, New Jersey is the region. People in New Jersey are rebelling against the rest of the country and have lately declared that all Nintendo fans should jump in.
And you might look up the difference between PC and bigotry. PC forbids a subject, Bigotry forbids a discourse. Neither is desirable.
Does a discourse contrary to what the "analysts" on CNN's 30 seconds per topic offend you so much to attempt to insult me? Please heed my previous post and put me on ignore if you so desire. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
