|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Can you prove that the island won't tip over?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chickenpie wrote: |
Jesus Christ where do you Americans get your politicians from?
George Bush and now this shiit....
What a fecked up country.  |
Democracy isn't working anymore. We'd probably be better off putting all 300,000,000 names of each American in a gigantic Uncle Sam hat, stirring the names up with a gigantic wooden spoon, and whichever one gets pulled out by a lady in a bikini is dictator of the USA for life. As screwed up as it sounds, it could only be an improvement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jaykimf wrote: |
| "Johnson�s office told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the Congressman is known for his �deadpan� delivery and that he was using a �facetious metaphor.� |
Given I all ready addressed this response by his staffers in my original post, I'm not sure why you'd quote it again in response to me. I know he and his office staff are claiming it was a metaphor. That doesn't mean I'm going to believe it out of hand, though; of course they'd do their best to help him save face if this was really just a gaffe. That's part of their job.
| jaykimf wrote: |
| Apparently a deadpan facetious metaphor is a little too sophisticated for some people. |
If he was really engaging in metaphor, there was nothing sophisticated about his usage of it at all, which is another reason I'm hesitant to believe it. The metaphor in question was completely irrational; to metaphorically refer to too much stress on an island's ecology and infrastructure as "capsizing and tipping over" -- accompanied by a hand gesture to that extent -- is not a particularly sophisticated metaphor. It's a confusing, poorly thought out one at best. If a congressman were describing Iraq based on a recent visit and used the example, "The ground there is thirsty," metaphor, we'd all understand, because it's a good metaphor.
Maybe he really did think this was an appropriate metaphor, I don't know. I doubt it, though; people prone to using metaphors generally are much more competent at their craft and execution than this. If this was a metaphor, it wasn't too sophisticated for people to understand, it was too nonsensical for people to understand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marc Ravalomanana
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jaykimf wrote: |
| Apparently a deadpan facetious metaphor is a little too sophisticated for some people. |
This was my first reaction, and I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I've since seen the video, and that benefit is long gone.
I think he meant exactly what he said. I cannot, in any honesty, conclude otherwise. I look at that delivery and it's very hard to escape the sensation that there's something wrong with him, that he's no longer firing on all cylinders. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
Why didn't the General tell him to stfu? Theres no way I would put up with this type of idiocy.
Not to defend Bush, but the dumb guy shtick was an act(I don't know what the motivations were). Look at videos of him from the early 90s and he speaks at length on issues without any of the trademark tics and idiosyncratic language that would characterize him during the presidency. |
No, he's an idiot. Really. Ok, not an idiot, but as anti-intellectual as you can get. post any of those videos 'cause otherwise I'm calling BS on that one. |
The whole schtick about Bush being a good ol' boy from Texas is ridiculous. He comes from a blue-blooded family of establishment bankers from the east coast. His grandfather was a partner at Brown Brothers Harriman (along with W. Averell Harriman, one of the most powerful bankers in the country, and fellow Skull and Bones member at Yale). Both Prescott Bush and Harriman were directly involved as directors in the Union Bank, which openly funded Hitler.
George H.W. Bush was also an east coast elite, and member of Skull and Bones, who used his connections with the Harriman family to start an oil company in Texas and become a multi-millionaire in his own right. His son happened to be raised in Texas, but was educated at Yale (also Skull and Bones), and above all connected with the same people his father and grandfather were: the east coast banking establishment.
I have also watched clips of him as governor, and he is like a different person, speaking convincingly and lucidly. Then he suddenly 'transformed' into a buffoon drawling on with his Texan accent, playing into liberal public's imagination. Half the time when he'd make some stupid comment you could see a smile on his lips and a look in his eyes like he knew it was all a big joke. Then you get famous comments of him as president joking about the "haves and the have mores", calling the elite his "base" and it all makes more sense. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh come on!
We all know he was speaking metaphorically. There is no way that that US citizens are that idiotic that they would vote in a moron.
Though he is raising an interesting point and that is can Guam sustain the numbers of us sodiers required to protect Asia while not actually being based there?
Look I know politics and one thing I know is that regardless of how stupid some politicians seem, they aren't as stupid as we make them out to be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| There is no way that that US citizens are that idiotic that they would vote in a moron. |
Well, first of all, Sarah Palin quite handily proves you wrong. That said, saying something silly doesn't make you a moron, it just means you said something silly. I'm sure we've all said things that, upon later reflection, were poorly thought out or outright incorrect. That doesn't make us all morons.
Politicians spent a lot of time talking on camera. Sooner or later they all say something stupid. It's very easy for me to believe that this man just, on this particular occasion, said something without really thinking it through. Or maybe he was just sick the day his class learned about island geology and was never taught exactly how islands form. It's not like getting into college or law school requires knowledge about islands, after all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Well, first of all, Sarah Palin quite handily proves you wrong |
No she doesn't. She managed to convince intelligent people to vote her into a job that pays her money to do almost nothing.
She is not a moron (by technical definition) otherwise the rest of the world have to accept that the US population are by definition MORONS as they must all be of a lower intelligence level.
Your politicians may be cretins but they aren't morons.
edit: I am giving US citizens the benefit of the doubt, as you may be right that all US citizens are morons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Well, first of all, Sarah Palin quite handily proves you wrong |
No she doesn't. She managed to convince intelligent people to vote her into a job that pays her money to do almost nothing. |
Right, despite her being a moron.
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| She is not a moron (by technical definition) otherwise the rest of the world have to accept that the US population are by definition MORONS as they must all be of a lower intelligence level. |
That doesn't make any sense. Sarah Palin being a moron doesn't prove that the people who voted for her are morons. It just proves the people who voted for her voted in ignorance (which is a common phenomenon). And that's precisely why the American people can and do elect outright stupid people as their representatives: they vote in ignorance. That might be foolish of them, but it doesn't prove they are of moronic intelligence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| And that's precisely why the American people can and do elect outright stupid people as their representatives: they vote in ignorance. That might be foolish of them, but it doesn't prove they are of moronic intelligence. |
How could you be so ignorant of a political position or person that it doesn't make you a moron to vote for one?
Most americans I have met are not ignorant of the issues that affect them.
Who leads your country is one of the most important issues, does my countries leaders or applicants lie to us? Yes, but we know they are lying to us, we are just hopeful they will be honest.
Your argument of ignorance is just embarrasing. Our problem is stupidity in being trustful of the idea of hope, not one of ignorance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| visitorq wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
Why didn't the General tell him to stfu? Theres no way I would put up with this type of idiocy.
Not to defend Bush, but the dumb guy shtick was an act(I don't know what the motivations were). Look at videos of him from the early 90s and he speaks at length on issues without any of the trademark tics and idiosyncratic language that would characterize him during the presidency. |
No, he's an idiot. Really. Ok, not an idiot, but as anti-intellectual as you can get. post any of those videos 'cause otherwise I'm calling BS on that one. |
The whole schtick about Bush being a good ol' boy from Texas is ridiculous. |
I never said he was a country hick or anything along those lines. Regardless, a lot of" good ol' boys" are very intelligent. He's just not that bright, that is the fact of the matter. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Summer Wine wrote: |
Most americans I have met are not ignorant of the issues that affect them.
|
Bullshit. If that weren't the case, schools wouldn't be in as dire straights as they are now, and the war on drugs would have ended long ago. And the whole health care debate is another illustration that you're wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
Why didn't the General tell him to stfu? Theres no way I would put up with this type of idiocy.
Not to defend Bush, but the dumb guy shtick was an act(I don't know what the motivations were). Look at videos of him from the early 90s and he speaks at length on issues without any of the trademark tics and idiosyncratic language that would characterize him during the presidency. |
No, he's an idiot. Really. Ok, not an idiot, but as anti-intellectual as you can get. post any of those videos 'cause otherwise I'm calling BS on that one. |
The whole schtick about Bush being a good ol' boy from Texas is ridiculous. |
I never said he was a country hick or anything along those lines. Regardless, a lot of" good ol' boys" are very intelligent. He's just not that bright, that is the fact of the matter. |
The fact of the matter is you're basing your opinion only on speeches of him you've watched in the media, and that's all. You have no way of knowing what he's really like (neither do I), but there's plenty of reason to believe he's nowhere near as dumb as portrayed. It doesn't really matter if he reads eloquently from a teleprompter or not, he basically accomplished everything he set out to do during his terms as president, so how dumb can he be? As a politician he was of course just a puppet of the establishment (as is Obama), but his family has been very much a part of the establishment itself for generations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And that's precisely why the American people can and do elect outright stupid people as their representatives: they vote in ignorance. That might be foolish of them, but it doesn't prove they are of moronic intelligence. |
How could you be so ignorant of a political position or person that it doesn't make you a moron to vote for one? |
Very easily. Say you aren't very interested in politics in general. Say further that you vote Republican. On election day, you go down to the ballot box, you vote Republican, you go home. That might sound silly to someone who has a genuine interest in political issues -- like most of us on this forum -- but lots of people act that way Summer.
So that takes care of general elections. But what about primaries, you might ask? The answer is simple: people in politics don't work alone. They have handlers. Those handlers can and do coach them on what to say, what to do, what messages to push, and so forth. A well-funded moron sticking to talking points provided for them by their handlers can win their party's faithful base over fairly easily; it's not hard to hide stupidity during a primary, so long as you keep your moron on a short leash.
In fact, if anything the real problem with the American system is just how hard it is to discovery someone's a moron before you actually elect them. When all you get to hear of the candidate is pre-written speeches and Q&A sessions with pre-planted questions, even a moron can seem competent enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| jaykimf wrote: |
| "Johnson�s office told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the Congressman is known for his �deadpan� delivery and that he was using a �facetious metaphor.� |
Given I all ready addressed this response by his staffers in my original post, I'm not sure why you'd quote it again in response to me. I know he and his office staff are claiming it was a metaphor. That doesn't mean I'm going to believe it out of hand, though; of course they'd do their best to help him save face if this was really just a gaffe. That's part of their job.
| jaykimf wrote: |
| Apparently a deadpan facetious metaphor is a little too sophisticated for some people. |
If he was really engaging in metaphor, there was nothing sophisticated about his usage of it at all, which is another reason I'm hesitant to believe it. The metaphor in question was completely irrational; to metaphorically refer to too much stress on an island's ecology and infrastructure as "capsizing and tipping over" -- accompanied by a hand gesture to that extent -- is not a particularly sophisticated metaphor. It's a confusing, poorly thought out one at best. If a congressman were describing Iraq based on a recent visit and used the example, "The ground there is thirsty," metaphor, we'd all understand, because it's a good metaphor.
Maybe he really did think this was an appropriate metaphor, I don't know. I doubt it, though; people prone to using metaphors generally are much more competent at their craft and execution than this. If this was a metaphor, it wasn't too sophisticated for people to understand, it was too nonsensical for people to understand. |
The reason I responded to you was because you were the only one who indicated you had considered the possibility that he was speaking metaphorically. Even though I disagree with you conclusion, yours was the most intelligent comment and worthy of a response. I disagree with you assertion that the metaphor was completely irrational. It made sense to me. You seem to think the hand gesture indicated a literal interpretation of the words. I'd say it was a visual metaphor that reinforced the verbal metaphor. Your comment about those prone to using metaphors being more competent in the usage may or may not be true. Lame metaphors get used all the time. Even if we accept that it was a lousy metaphor, that is no indication that it was intended as anything other than a metaphor. If you want to argue that it was a lousy metaphor, or even a silly metaphor, that is a matter of opinion with which I respectfully disagree. I would agree that his articulation could have been better, but I have no doubt that he was speaking figuratively and not literally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
