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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I equate this something like the Titanic.
If it turns out they were attacked, it's more like Pearl harbour-light |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
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What do you suggest? All-out war?
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Simply, word for word. When North Korea threatens to attack, the south should respond in kind. I believe this will throw them off-guard. |
It is not clear that this was a deliberate North Korean attack.
It could be weeks and months before it does become clear, if at all.
if the cause of the sinking is definitively identified as a recently planted North korean seamine, what next?
Do we escalate a prosperous country of 50 million into a potentially devastating war that would push it back to the stone age? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| mc_jc wrote: |
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What do you suggest? All-out war?
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Simply, word for word. When North Korea threatens to attack, the south should respond in kind. I believe this will throw them off-guard. |
It is not clear that this was a deliberate North Korean attack.
It could be weeks and months before it does become clear, if at all.
if the cause of the sinking is definitively identified as a recently planted North korean seamine, what next?
Do we escalate a prosperous country of 50 million into a potentially devastating war that would push it back to the stone age? |
It should be pointed out that during the period of time that mc_jc is referencing as the golden age of tough-talking South Korean leadership, there were at least two Nork assassination attmepts directed at South Korean presidents(the one that took out Park's wife in 1971, plus the Rangoon bombing in 1983, which killed 17 people), as well as the bombing of a civilian KAL airliner in 1987, in which over 100 people died. So it's not at all clear to me that all the tough-talk from Seoul was having much impact on the Nork's behaviour.
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I assume that you meant to type 2Megabyte.
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Yeah, I was calling him Megabyte for short. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
Obviously you're not from the US or the UK, are you?
I wonder what would happen if a terror attack happened in Canada or Australia?
The situation is ripe in both places for it to happen. |
I'm American, but I didn't know any of the people who died on 9/11. They were all just a bunch of people I didn't know, just like the Korean sailors.
I personally knew three people who were murdered in Nashville in 2006 in two separate incidents. Their deaths were important to me and I'm sure they were a monumental loss to their families, but I realize the deaths of these people are meaningless to billions around the world who didn't know them just as my death will be totally meaningless to all but a very, very few people someday.
Nearly 7,000 Americans died yesterday, but we're not going to make a big deal about 4/3, because another 7,000 or so Americans will die again today on 4/4. What happened on 9/11/01 was very sad, but we really should move on. If we really cared about Americans needlessly dying, more of us would donate our organs upon death since twice the number of Americans who died on 9/11 die each year because so many of us, for whatever reasons, want to feed our organs to the worms instead of donating them to people who truly need them. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/21975.php Instead of moving on and doing things that would save the lives of Americans, we want to dwell on 9/11. 9/11 this. 9/11 that. 9/11, 9/11, 9/11...with a little bit of Natalie Holloway thrown in every other day even though I don't understand how she lingers in the news and national conscience either.
We're not going to find Natalie or change what happened on 9/11, so how about most of us getting on treadmills and losing some damn weight? THAT would save thousands of American lives. No, that would be too hard. We'll take the easy way out, sit on our asses, keep talking about 9/11 or Natalie, gain another 50 pounds each, blame it on Monsanto, and throw a tantrum because Obama or some mean ole Republican bureaucrats aren't doing enough to make sure our Lapband surgeries are paid for. 
To answer your question about the Canadians and Australians, I know very few. While it would be sad to hear about any Canadians or Australians dying in a terrorist attack, it's no different to me than hearing about people I don't know in Mexico, Haiti, Nigeria, or wherever getting killed by whoever. The news talks about people getting killed in the news every day. Only Natalie and the 9/11 people seem to be considered special. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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I am sitting at the air terminal at Yokasuka waiting for my transfer to Bagram, so I have time to answer this one last post.
If you are indeed an America, as you claim to be (there are a few Koreans who claim to be Americans out of fear of being flamed), you are exactly whats wrong with our society today, particularly the young people- its always about me, me, me..wait! facebook....me, me and maybe some more about me. As long as it doesn't concern you directly, than why should you care right?
It is people like you who make the US the way it is today. It is people like you why many people, including posters on this board, consider the US to be a joke. It is people like you who haven't done anything to contribute so the nation could be a good or tolerable place to live and raise a family.
But no- you have no interest in anything because you won't get anything out of it.
Talk about people getting off their asses, why don't you go back to the US and do some type of volunteer work or get a job that might help keep the US safe....or is that above you because you feel you get nothing in return?
You complain about people talking about 9/11? Well, I lost 4 high school friends and 7 fellow university alumni in the tragedy. So yes, I have a vested reason to mourn that day- whether you like it or not.
Did 3000 or more people die in the Namdaemun fire? Did 3000 people die when the Cheonan hit a mine, split in two and sank to the bottom of the ocean? Will Korea truly investigate it and hold North Korea accountable for the sinking of the frigate?
NO!
Koreans are too busy worrying if this would hurt their financial rating and drive foreign investors out (when I boarded the plane a few hours ago, I didn't see a huge exodus of foreign businessmen rushing to leave Korea).
Noh Mu Hyun fed the public so much BS about North Koreans being their "blood brethren" that when the skirmish on the West Sea occurred in 2002, the incident was hushed because of the World Cup and Koreans blamed the US for creating a climate of regional insecurity for simply protecting them.
Koreans will do nothing now because they feel they have so much invested in the North, though the returns for the investment remains to be seen- except for more threatening provocations in order to get what they want.
I will say this- USFK still has leaving Korea on the table. The day the Korean government tells them to leave, it will be the day everyone will be given the order to index their shops, units and agencies and head for a more hospitable location (Philippines and Indonesia for the Army and Navy and Vietnam for the Air Force and elements of the Navy)- Working agreements and MoUs have all been worked out in case the Korean government tells the US military to leave. Why do you think the US wants to hurrily tranfer wartime command to AFROK? What do you think the Chinese Defense Minister and SoD Gates talk about when they meet?
The US has shown a willingness to leave Korea if it were to guarantee Chinese assistance in getting their help in the North Korean nuclear crisis.
The Japanese have said (though not publicly) that they are willing to relocate Marines to other areas on Okinawa- although they really want to heed to public sentiment, they know how valuable American troops are just in case there is a region emergency or conflict. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| Nearly 7,000 Americans died yesterday, but we're not going to make a big deal about 4/3, because another 7,000 or so Americans will die again today on 4/4. |
Did those 7000 people die in the same incident? Didn't think so. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
Koreans are too busy worrying if this would hurt their financial rating and drive foreign investors out (when I boarded the plane a few hours ago, I didn't see a huge exodus of foreign businessmen rushing to leave Korea).. |
It has had some effect...
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Gold futures leapt while stock markets and Treasury yields fell after South Korea reported a naval ship sank
"This is really all about that variable we call the geopolitical; it's about Korea," said Peter Kenny, a managing director in institutional sales at Knight Equity Markets LP in Jersey City, New Jersey. "It's taken some of the euphoria out of the market." |
http://www.financialpost.com/news-sectors/story.html?id=2730690#ixzz0kBkuJXK1 |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| It is people like you why many people, including posters on this board, consider the US to be a joke. |
The criticisms I see the most on this website about Americans are:
1. The conduct and costs of our military.
2. Obesity.
3. Debt.
None of those three issues has anything to do with me. Actually, most of the criticisms I read on here about adjosshis (spitting on the sidewalk, womanizing, farmers in suits, etc) sound more like me. 
| mc_jc wrote: |
It is people like you who haven't done anything to contribute so the nation could be a good or tolerable place to live and raise a family.
But no- you have no interest in anything because you won't get anything out of it.
Talk about people getting off their asses, why don't you go back to the US and do some type of volunteer work or get a job that might help keep the US safe....or is that above you because you feel you get nothing in return? |
I'm in the USA right now. I'm a farmer who grows vegetables and fruits. I try to sell as much of it as I possibly can to make as much money as possible, but what I cannot sell, I donate to charities, give to people in my community, and (on rare occasion) give some to other farmers to use as feed for their livestock.
Gee, it's too bad I don't sit in South Korea with my thumb up my butt at the expense of American taxpayers. Where would America be without our heroes saving the USA from being conquered by North Korean idiots who can't even complete their landmark hotel in Pyongyang?
| mc_jc wrote: |
You complain about people talking about 9/11? Well, I lost 4 high school friends and 7 fellow university alumni in the tragedy. So yes, I have a vested reason to mourn that day- whether you like it or not.
Did 3000 or more people die in the Namdaemun fire? Did 3000 people die when the Cheonan hit a mine, split in two and sank to the bottom of the ocean? Will Korea truly investigate it and hold North Korea accountable for the sinking of the frigate?
NO! |
Some Koreans actually lost family members, not their Facebook buddies from high school or college. I'm sure the Cheonan tragedy a huge deal to them.
If the Koreans make a zillion different styles of coins over the course of the next decade commemorating the Cheonan disaster the way we've made so many different 9/11 commemorative coins, I will at that point agree that they have truly gone off the deep end and have blown the Cheonan disaster way out of proportion.
| mc_jc wrote: |
| Koreans are too busy worrying if this would hurt their financial rating and drive foreign investors out (when I boarded the plane a few hours ago, I didn't see a huge exodus of foreign businessmen rushing to leave Korea). |
I bet you would see foreign businessmen trying to leave if South Korea tried to "hold North Korea accountable." |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Yeah, I was calling him Megabyte for short. |
If he develops a back problem we can call him floppy disk. 2MB of floppy glory. |
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mc_jc
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Location: C4B- Cp Red Cloud, Area-I
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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The criticisms I see the most on this website about Americans are:
1. The conduct and costs of our military.
2. Obesity.
3. Debt.
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1. The military is just that- an arm of the political establishment that is meant to kill people to protect your ignorant way of life.
2. Not many people here talk about it unless to complain that Koreans insult them about it. But it is a major issue that affects millions of Americans and weighs heavily on the third issue
3. I blame our current debt on the war- we were never truly prepared for it and the government had to cut many vital social programs to fund it. The current administration wanted to fund the programs cut by the wars with disastrous results- though they had good intentions at the start.
But it is historically impossible to finance wars without harming social functioning at home.
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I'm in the USA right now. I'm a farmer who grows vegetables and fruits. I try to sell as much of it as I possibly can to make as much money as possible, but what I cannot sell, I donate to charities, give to people in my community, and (on rare occasion) give some to other farmers to use as feed for their livestock.
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Although this is a cliche that is thrown around here more times than not, the contextual usage of your comments lead me to believe you are not American at all- just playing the part to troll people into replying to your posts- sorry, but I find that quack, Todd Swanson, more believable.
It's ok, you can play "American" all you want 
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| it's too bad I don't sit in South Korea with my thumb up my butt at the expense of American taxpayers. |
You are very correct- sarcastically speaking.
I did nothing all day as director of the logistical branch of PACOM (Pacific Command)- I was just responsible for overseeing supply deliveries in both Korea and Japan while reviewing civilian supply and construction contracts, nothing important, right?
Oh! BTW- I'm not in Korea at the moment either- I was assigned to a 7-month project as Deputy Director of ISAF Area-South's Supply Sustainment Department (ISAF-SSD), overseeing day-to-day logistical operations that encompasses supplying American, NATO and Afghan soldiers with everything from rations to ammo. I am also coordinating efforts with the ART (Afghanistan Reconstruction Team) that sends aid to Afghan civilians fleeing the fighting and providing supplies to such agencies as UNICEF, WFP, WHO and ICRC to provide things like tents and medical supplies- not to mention I handle supplying operations conducted by InterPol and the DEA in their fight to eradicate opium production in the country.
Yes- as a farmer, you have a much more important job...
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| Some Koreans actually lost family members, not their Facebook buddies from high school or college. |
Let's see- I graduated high school in 1987 and I graduated from Columbia University Graduate School in 1997- so does this put my acquaintances before facebook was every created?
Get out of the house more- not everyone has or wants a facebook page.
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I'm sure the Cheonan tragedy a huge deal to them.
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It was a huge blow to the security and stability of the country, but it is and never will be on the same magnitude as 9/11
How would you feel if you lost your mother or a loved one at that time and I simply said, "Tough break, kid..."- how would you feel. Being Korean, I have a feeling you would simply bury your emotions.
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If the Koreans make a zillion different styles of coins over the course of the next decade commemorating the Cheonan disaster the way we've made so many different 9/11 commemorative coins, I will at that point agree that they have truly gone off the deep end and have blown the Cheonan disaster way out of proportion.
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Obviously you're not American or else you would know about the American psyche. I am not going to tell you (if you could enlighten me, I would be very happy to know your take on it), you need to find out for yourself.
You are a very fun person to talk to- but you need alittle more work to convince people you're American.
Try again later once you have it mastered  |
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mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| mc_jc wrote: |
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What do you suggest? All-out war?
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Simply, word for word. When North Korea threatens to attack, the south should respond in kind. I believe this will throw them off-guard. |
It is not clear that this was a deliberate North Korean attack.
It could be weeks and months before it does become clear, if at all.
if the cause of the sinking is definitively identified as a recently planted North korean seamine, what next?
Do we escalate a prosperous country of 50 million into a potentially devastating war that would push it back to the stone age? |
so north Korea should be able to do whatever they want without consequences?
They take 40+ lives and S.K should just impose economic sanctions? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:18 am Post subject: |
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How do you know it was an attack by North Korea? There is no evidence yet. The South Korean government is doing the responsible thing by investigating the evidence at hand. At the moment, the evidence is on the floor of the ocean.
And why go to war? Economic sanctions may very well be the best (as in most responsible and most effective) response if the sinking had been caused by North Korea. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| mc_jc wrote: |
| 1. The military is just that- an arm of the political establishment that is meant to kill people to protect your ignorant way of life. |
That might be what it is meant to do, but nobody ever really even tries to to conquer us even though we lose so many of our wars. Clearly, there has been a lot of crying wolf going on.
| mc_jc wrote: |
2. Not many people here talk about it unless to complain that Koreans insult them about it. But it is a major issue that affects millions of Americans and weighs heavily on the third issue
3. I blame our current debt on the war- we were never truly prepared for it and the government had to cut many vital social programs to fund it. The current administration wanted to fund the programs cut by the wars with disastrous results- though they had good intentions at the start.
But it is historically impossible to finance wars without harming social functioning at home. |
Government programs aren't vital to preventing obesity. We're each responsible for our own food intake. If someone doesn't have the will power or common sense to refrain from eating a whole pack of Oreos or guzzling a Big Gulp, it's their own fault, not Bush's or Obama's.
If we need the government to tell us what to eat and when to eat it, I would like to nominate Congressman Jerry Nadler as Food Consumption Czar. http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/06/19/ba_nadler01.jpg
I do agree with you that a lot of our debt is from our wars, but our failure in these wars isn't from a lack of financial commitment to them. I don't know jack about military science, but I do know we've spent more than we could afford to on these wars.
| mc_jc wrote: |
Although this is a cliche that is thrown around here more times than not, the contextual usage of your comments lead me to believe you are not American at all- just playing the part to troll people into replying to your posts- sorry, but I find that quack, Todd Swanson, more believable.
It's ok, you can play "American" all you want |
It seems like Asian immigrants are perhaps the most self-sufficient demographic in America, so even though I'm not Korean, I take it as a compliment when you say I am.
| mc_jc wrote: |
I did nothing all day as director of the logistical branch of PACOM (Pacific Command)- I was just responsible for overseeing supply deliveries in both Korea and Japan while reviewing civilian supply and construction contracts, nothing important, right?
Oh! BTW- I'm not in Korea at the moment either- I was assigned to a 7-month project as Deputy Director of ISAF Area-South's Supply Sustainment Department (ISAF-SSD), overseeing day-to-day logistical operations that encompasses supplying American, NATO and Afghan soldiers with everything from rations to ammo. I am also coordinating efforts with the ART (Afghanistan Reconstruction Team) that sends aid to Afghan civilians fleeing the fighting and providing supplies to such agencies as UNICEF, WFP, WHO and ICRC to provide things like tents and medical supplies- not to mention I handle supplying operations conducted by InterPol and the DEA in their fight to eradicate opium production in the country.
Yes- as a farmer, you have a much more important job... |
I can do without the war in Afghanistan and bases in Japan and Korea longer than you can do without food.
| mc_jc wrote: |
| Let's see- I graduated high school in 1987 and I graduated from Columbia University Graduate School in 1997- so does this put my acquaintances before facebook was every created? |
I don't know. My sister-in-law says she talks to some of her high school friends on Facebook and she graduated in 1996 or maybe it was '97. I'm not into Facebook, but if they expand and create Breastbook or Snatchbook, I might check those out. I really think most everyday chicks are too prudish to put pics of themselves like that on the internet the way they do their faces. If they ever do roll it out, hopefully it'll be before all of my friends are over the hill.
| mc_jc wrote: |
| How would you feel if you lost your mother or a loved one at that time and I simply said, "Tough break, kid..."- how would you feel. Being Korean, I have a feeling you would simply bury your emotions. |
I've lost relatives to cancer and it is very sad when it happens. But I'm not going to go to Iraq and kill people because of it or have coins made to commemorate the deaths of my loved ones. I fact, I don't want to remember their deaths. I want to remember their lives. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Much as with many other Korean 'equivalents' to things American, the resemblance is scant, and the analogy is flawed.
Cheongwadae is called 'the Bluehouse' in a clumsy attempt to parallel the Whitehouse. Pa jeon is 'Korean pizza' for no other reason than that it has sort of the same shape. Hite, OB, and Cass like to call themselves 'beer'; and people who write for the Korea Times put the word 'journalist' on their name cards.
With this kind of thinking so common, it was almost inevitable that someone would call the sinking of the Cheonan the 'Korean 9/11'. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| mayorgc wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
Do we escalate a prosperous country of 50 million into a potentially devastating war that would push it back to the stone age? |
so north Korea should be able to do whatever they want without consequences? |
Well North Korea previously attempted to assasinate the SK president, killed SK politicians with a bomb, infiltrated soldiers that went on a shooting spree, dug several invasion tunnels into the ROK, and had rolling gun battles with Korean patrol boats in the yellow sea.
And they got away with all that, so why is sinking a boat such a big deal?
The only thing that would undoubtedly provoke full-scale war here would be a missile falling directly on seoul. The rest are just irritations that aren't really worth reacting to (which I think summarises a lot of Korean behaviour ). |
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