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Question about the way Korea or Koreans conduct business...
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gracce34



Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Location: TEXAS

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Question about the way Korea or Koreans conduct business... Reply with quote

To my understanding, a business contract in Korea is different from contracts in the U.S. I recently talked with a foreign teacher regarding her experience at a private school in South Korea. and it seems overall the environment was duable, but certain things the teacher had to "speak up or fight for" regarding certain things in her contract (not pay related) , but she was the only teacher granted her request since she spoke up.

My question:

Is his "standard business practice in Korea "the "norm" culturaly speaking?

I know most people in US would see it as .... "try to get one over on you, unless you speak up"

OR is it just this particular school?


I'm just trying figure out if this is across the board in South Korea . It seems common since to factor this in when deciding whether or not to accept employment.


Rolling Eyes
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Solarian



Joined: 12 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That has been my experience too, but it has also been my experience in Canada. Small business owners will try to screw you 99% of the time, it's just what they do.
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ChilgokBlackHole



Joined: 21 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://travel.state.gov/travel/living/teaching/teaching_1240.html
Quote:
NATURE OF CONTRACTS IN KOREA: Foreign instructors in Korea occasionally have contract disputes with their employers. In the Korean context, a contract is simply a rough working agreement, subject to change depending upon the circumstances. Most Koreans do not view deviations from a contract as a breach of contract, and few Koreans would consider taking an employer to court over a contract dispute.

Instead, Koreans tend to view contracts as always being flexible and subject to further negotiation. Culturally, the written contract is not the real contract; the unwritten, oral agreement that one has with one's employer is the real contract. However, many employers will view a contract violation by a foreign worker as serious, and will renege on verbal promises if they feel they can. Any contract should be signed with these factors in mind.
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Old fat expat



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans operate on a master - servant relationship in the work place.

Contracts are, by definition, two equal parties negotiating an exchange.

Most NZers who have studied the Employment Contracts Act will understand. America has a system where small businesses (less than 11 employees I think) are treated as master-servant. Larger businesses and federal contracts have different obligations as per federal law-more contractual by nature.

Master-servant relationships can be good or bad, depending on the master. Don't expect Korean hagwon owners to understand contracts founded on a principle of equality. It is not how they think.
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Dr. Whom



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been in Korea since 1996 and have been on an E-7 visa for most
of that time. I can assure you that contracts by reputable businesses
have exactly the same weight here as in any country. Large businesses
simply wouldn't get orders unless their business practices were above
board. In fact, Korea has a very high percentage of ISO9001 certified
businesses. This is a management certification that holds management
to very strict guidelines concerning conduct.

DON'T CONFUSE HAGWONS WITH REAL BUSINESSES.
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Old fat expat



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the OP was asking about teaching specifically.

I guess you used uppercase to yell at me. Rude. I have taught adults from large corporations since 2002. I am often surprised at some of the goings-on and shenanigans in the Korean work place. It is a different environment here, best to understand it.
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Dr. Whom



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old fat expat wrote:
I think the OP was asking about teaching specifically.

I guess you used uppercase to yell at me. Rude. I have taught adults from large corporations since 2002. I am often surprised at some of the goings-on and shenanigans in the Korean work place. It is a different environment here, best to understand it.


First, I didn't even read most of your post. The first few lines indicated
it was totally irrelevant. Therefore, second, I wasn't "yelling" at you.
Third, the OP asked if this was the norm across the board.

I can see why you teach business people and are not one of them yourself.
You seem to miss the obvious and take things too personally
to be effective.
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Old fat expat



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Whom:
You haven't been here very long but your posting style is clearly acerbic.

Who were you previously on this board before you got banned?
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of what a Korean boss may wish to be true about contracts, both the Labor Board and the courts treat the contract the same way a court in the US would treat a contract.
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Old fat expat



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali:

True.

The supposedly "totally irrelevant" (Mr. Whom's assertion, not yours) idea that Korean bosses view contracts differently than do Westerners can help in avoiding the Labor Board.

The idea of master/servant vs. equal parties comes from my H.R. and Labour Relations degree.

Understanding the nature of the relationship as viewed by the other party is the same as understanding your environment. Your employer's position might be wrong, you might have the courts backing you, but I still think it is best to understand what and why these differences occur.
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Solarian



Joined: 12 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think people are blowing the Korea factor out of proportion.
Hagwons are small business, and function just like any other small business. Small business owners have property like chairs, computers, TV, you, etc... If you work in a larger, public school system, then you can expect to be treated as an employee. Don't blame Korea though, you'll get the exact same treatment everywhere that doesn't have a large HR department to protect you and give you some sort of basic human rights at your workplace.
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gracce34



Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Location: TEXAS

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Post subject: Question about the way Korea or Koreans conduc Reply with quote

So Im wondering how to approach all of this when it comes to deciding on whether or not to accept a position at a school..any advice? I don't want to go around turning down every job that comes my way if this is somewhat the norm?

Rolling Eyes
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Post subject: Question about the way Korea or Koreans co Reply with quote

gracce34 wrote:
So Im wondering how to approach all of this when it comes to deciding on whether or not to accept a position at a school..any advice? I don't want to go around turning down every job that comes my way if this is somewhat the norm?

Rolling Eyes


Don't worry about it. Just take the best job you can get.

Public schools almost always pay on time and honor the main points of the contract. Hagwon owners might mess around a bit but most don't these days and you can have any major breech of contract sorted out by the labor board pretty quick.
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gracce34



Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Location: TEXAS

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Question about the way Korea or Koreans co Reply with quote

Thank YOu.
So what would you recommend if I already have a job offer early in the game. I'm currently talking with foreign teachers at the school, but I don't want to jump the gun just yet. But I don't want to burn any bridges either. This is my first interview/job offer in a location that I like but not sure about the school just yet. I don't plan to leave until later June.


Rolling Eyes
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curlyhoward



Joined: 03 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old fat expat wrote:
Dr. Whom:
You haven't been here very long but your posting style is clearly acerbic.

Who were you previously on this board before you got banned?


I think he was douglas.[/b]
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