Korean Job Discussion Forums

[everpassingpxpx]

Being a dedicated member to forums in the past, I realize that these newbie posts get redundant. Please bare with me. I promise that if I get an ESL job I'll contribute my own experiences in the future.

I'm looking into both South Korea and Japan as options for teaching. To keep with forum regulations I'll specifically talk about Seoul, Korea.

Personal Background: Male, 25 years old, Bachelor's in Communications, current 2+ year career in public relations for a global marketing firm, open minded, strong writing skills (including published articles), and lots of determination to teach abroad.

A friend of mine recommended that I look into YBM as a good starter school in Seoul. Through research online I'm noticing some mixed reactions. If you have taught with YBM or closely know someone who has, what was there experience? I'm not a spoiled job searcher and understand that as in any job, workers have to pay their dues. At the same time I'm also aware that some of these private teaching companies can have some shady business practices. I'm really just trying to get a feel for YBM and if there are any better options available for new teachers in Seoul.

Also, my most desired teaching environment would be teaching adults, but I'm not opposed to teaching kids given the probability of fewer adult teaching opportunities.

Please share your thoughts and experiences, I encourage you to leverage my background in your response. Thanks in advance for not picking too much on the newb!

[Seoulio]

Depends on what kind of YBM youre talking about.

I worked for a PSA

We called it Piece of S**t Academy.

Now I got stuck on a 9 - 6 contract, when you worked it out I got about 3000 won an hour more than a person who worked til 4:30

And when they didnt have students for a tues and thurs class they had you doing crap work simply becuase they "had you til 6"

You dont get your lunch hours, you get very little breaks, you have overbearing offic managers coming in and telling you youre hanging a clock in the wrong place

You have public performances like every 3 months for pain in the butt Korean mothers ( or more accurately for the pain in the butt office managers who are making sure that the school has the appearance of perfection so they can stroke thier own egos about how well they must be managing the schools, and please the cash cow parents.

The managers are constantly checking on these performances basically supplanting any of your originality for what they want, which they will get uptight about when you DO NOT want to do what they want and tell them so.

They generally are not that concerned about you. At least my boss wasn't. It didnt matter how upset I was over something outside of school, all they were concerned about was the fact that my issue was not convenient timing for the school.

I was sick and called in sick ONCE, I was told that I needed to come in for my 3:00 to 6:00 classes ( afterschool) because there was no one to cover despite the fact that they had a teacher on staff who they got in a month early on a 4:30 contract, but who wasnt working them for the month in question ( til the new school year started) and was leaving at 3PM for that month and getting full pay, yeah why ask her to do it when you are PAYING her til 4:30 anyway right?

I asked for that to only count as a half sick day then ( we only got 3) and they said not a chance, so I said, then I'm not coming in, see you tomorrow.


Oh I could go on, but on the flip side, I loved my kids, my partner teacher, we were a family unit. We had field trips once a month, and they were fun, I bonded with the kids, I was kept busy, the day went by fairly fast all things considered, I got present all the time ( despite "not being contractually able to accept gifts" pfffft) got a lot of new friends at the job site, got paid on time, and didnt have to worry about that end of it

[andrewchon]

You don't say you have a TESOL/CELTA cert. If you don't have one, then I suggest you get one. You seem to be thinking of teaching in Seoul only, good adult teaching jobs can be had in non-Seoul locations. Bear in mind that you only have a BA, only that will count. Your experience as a copy-writer doesn't mean much here. As the above poster has said, any job is chancy in this land. Then again, one feels ripped-off every time one makes a purchase on this land, so I'd say don't get so paranoid about 'shady' practices but think more about what you want: teach overseas, no?

[everpassingpxpx]

Yes, the big picture is to teach overseas. I focus on Seoul because of its large population, figuring that more people = more available jobs. I also would like to teach in a city, not rural.

I've considered getting TESOL/CELTA certified, but I wanted to see my chances without it. I have a couple friends teaching abroad and they managed to get jobs without it. I just figured I'd try it without and save some cash and if I get no bites then go ahead and get the certification.

Do you happen to know of any good adult teaching jobs outside of Seoul (preferably in a city environment)?

It is disheartening to hear that my professional experience won't help (not saying that in an arrogant way). I've learned a lot about professionalism in a job situation, and a lot about technical and journalistic communications. But I have to imagine my minor in film studies would get me some points.

As for the first response. That experience sounds a little rough, with the sick day thing being the worst. How can you look professional and work at peak performance when you're green in the face? Seems counter-productive to me. How many different "kinds" of YBM are there?

[edwardcatflap]

In general you can 'get by' teaching kids here without any experience or qualifications as the stakeholders (parents/bosses etc..) are not totally clued up about best practice and the kids are unlikely to complain.

Teaching adults can be tougher as they've often paid for the course themselves and have a better idea about what they want. They are also more switched on than a lot of people here give them credit for, about what the role of a teacher should entail.

Without any training you could get complaints from discerning students about your subject knowledge, classroom management, subject matter, pacing, instructions, etc...I've managed teachers teaching adults here and these are the kind of things the students complain about.

If you've worked in journalism, your experience will help in the class room as you'll be able to think of words, the students are looking for, more easily than less literary colleagues and you'll probably have a more natural sense of when a written sentence has good style or not etc... Unfortunately this will probably not be recognised by the majority of Korean employers who rely more on outward appearance.

However, I would say you'd be mad to go into a class room of adults, who have probably paid quite a lot for their course and scarificed a lot of their free time, without any sort of training at all. Most of them will soon realise what they've paid their hard earned cash for, and leave in their droves.

[everpassingpxpx]

While working a full time job, I doubt going back to a brick and mortar school for TEFL will be very efficient (it could take years). I've seen several online courses as well. Are they worth while?

One that appears credible to me is http://www.teflcourse.net/. Does anyone know if this organization is any good, or know of anything better?

[English Matt]

Like others have said, without any experience it is probably not the best idea in the world to throw yourself headlong into a job teaching adults.

Cut your teeth teaching kids first. I personally wouldn't want to work for a Hagwon, whether it be teaching kids or adults. You could end up teaching 30 hours a week, have split shifts, delayed pay, not paid at all, the hagwon goes belly-up without any notice and you find yourself unemployed, homeless and penniless over night, etc.....

My advice: Get a job at a Public School. You will teach 22 (50 minute max.) lessons a week at most, and often fewer than that. Hagwons usually only provide 2 weeks of vacation a year. Public Schools provide double that, and often much more.....in addition there are many other days on which lessons will be cancelled due to exams, sports days, field trips, etc. In addition, in a PS you don't have to worry about whether the kids like you or not.....in a hagwon, if the kids don't like you, then their Mums will pull them out, the hagwon owner will lose revenue, and your job will be at risk - definitely the potential for a lot of stress right from the get go.

Korea takes some acclimating to, as does the job of teaching English to Korean students. Get yourself into a low stress environment in a PS and then after your first year, and if you feel ready, look for jobs in Universities.....you'll still be teaching adults, but you will also have a relaxed work schedule and lots of vacation. Personally I think such jobs also look better on your resume, whether you continue to work in the field of education in the future or move onto something different.


Finally, don't obsess about getting a job in Seoul. Some parts of Seoul have poor communication links to those areas of Seoul that you will likely be interested in going to in your free time (Hongdae, Itaewon, Apgujeong, Sinsa, Samcheong-dong, Insadong, Jong-no, etc.). Cities in Gyeonggi-do, on the periphery of Seoul are sometimes more liveable and better connected to 'central' Seoul.....I'm thinking Ilsan, Bundang, Bucheon, even Suwon. A lot of people have the same idea as you and hence there is often more competition for jobs in Seoul proper.....this has the effect of driving down salaries in Seoul, as well as increasing the workload for NETs. Once you start looking outside of Seoul it usually becomes a little easier to find something that suits you. In addition, if you choose to go the PS route then GEPIK (the Gyeonggi-do PS programme) pays more than SNET (sometimes referred to as SMOE, which is the Seoul PS programme).

[tefain]

Good post English Matt.

However, I will advise the OP to go ahead and try to get a job teaching adults. With your experience, you would probably find adults more challenging and rewarding than kids.
Don't get me wrong, I love teaching kids, but there's not much intellectual stimulation in teaching "a-a-apple."

Do be aware that if you teach adults here you'll more than likely have to work the dreaded split-shift.
I've never done it, but it's usually a few hours early (6am) in the morning, an afternoon break, then several more hours in the evening. It actually suits some people, but be sure you have a schedule that works for you.

Best of luck.

[everpassingpxpx]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone. While researching websites can provide good book knowledge, it all really comes down to experiences.

I've seen several websites out there that list available PS opportunities, I'm not really sure what they're all about though (HiTeacher, WorknPlay, TeachAwayInc, etc). Are they basically head hunters, or are they legit? If possible, please direct me to some job listings you've used and consider to be helpful and trustworthy.

Thanks again!

[ttompatz]

[bocceman]

With all due respect, the information you gave about yourself is very vague and not all that helpful in knowing what your options are.

The teaching industry here is very big, complex, and the type of offers you can receive vary widely according to your qualifications. People with high qualifications can make well over $15k a month. People with the minimum qualifications will make about $2-3k a month.

Here, in approximate descending order, are the most important considerations for landing a job here:

1.) Are you white?

Long story short, being White's a big advantage. Being Asian is a handicap. Being any other race is a giant handicap.

2.) Where'd you get your degree?

The prestige of a degree from an Ivy League/Top Tier university is extremely high here. While this is true in the States, the prestige given to such degrees in 10x higher here.

3.) How good looking are you?

While being good looking is certainly an advantage to professional advancement in the States, it's much more important here. Having interviewed at many, many different places: there's a very strong correlation between how much a place pays and the attractiveness of their staff.

4.) Are you already here?

Most places, especially the high-paying places, want an in-person interview. Plus many places, if they hire you want you to start working immediately. Plus, they don't want to deal with any potential complications of hiring someone 10,000 miles away. Which leads to:

5.) Do you have/need a work visa?

Most places strongly prefer people who already have a work visa or don't need one. It's kind of a pain in the ass, and takes a long time to get work visas (especially first time E-2 visas) here.

7.) Are you female?

Being female is better.

6.) What's your teaching experience?

This part should be common sense. The more teaching experience you have, particularly if it's relevant to your expected position, is better.

7.) Other work experience.

Without specifying the company you worked in or your specific position, it's hard to say what you can get here. Naturally, the more "prestigious" the company and your position, the better.


Best of luck!

[edwardcatflap]

I think your criteria for landing a good job is a bit misleading. Even someone who ticks all the boxes you mentioned will not be making 15k a month and in fact could still be making under 3.

[bocceman]

Perhaps I should have emphasized the "can" part in my post, where I mentioned that people can make over $15k a month. Granted most don't. Nonetheless, I am pretty comfortable in saying that if you can check off most of the items on the list you have a good chance of making 2-3x more than what most people typically make here. People who can check off all the items on the list (and I'm using a tight definition here: no schools ranked outside of the top 15, closely relevant teaching experience, and you better be considered "hot" by people outside of your own family) have a good shot at making over $15k a month.

As for making under $3k, I'm factoring in that most places give you a free furnished apartment and pay for your airfare here. Given those considerations, I'd say most people make over $3k a month.