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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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 Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I also wonder if some of these ads are testing the waters to see if they get any bites.
I suggest F visa holders start place work wanted ads with prices starting at w100,000 per hour as this will fix it. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| air76 wrote: |
| I personally don't teach any privates...the risk/reward ratio isn't good enough....but it cracks me up this whole F-visa -vs- E-visa thing....what possible rationale (unless you're joking) is there to make one think that they "deserve" to make the big bucks doing privates over someone else simply because they married a Korean national? |
It is called THE LAW. The LAW states on an E2 you cannot work outside of your specific place of employment without permission.
It is funny as I know tons of E2s who do privates on the side and they have ZERO fear of being cause. Back in 1996/97 it was the same way, then the crackdown came and a lot of friends were caught and sent home. After that, there was some fear, but lately none at all.
I see E2s teaching privates in much the same way I see Mexicans going into America and working without proper visas or documentation. In both cases, the labor pool is large and therefore the competition gets stiff and the prices go down.
Crackdown on E2s and prices will go up again. |
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jiberish
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Location: The Carribean Bay Wrestler
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Can't Koreans get cash for dobbing in K-tutors teaching without a lisence. Can foreigners do that too?
*dream starts of me being the bounty hunter of illegal E-2 tutors*
Now all I need is a theme song. |
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tigershark
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| no one likes a rat. |
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winterfall
Joined: 21 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Easter Clark wrote: |
This:
http://seoul.craigslist.co.kr/edu/1687950938.html
| Quote: |
Hello,
I am currently teaching part-time in Incheon, therefore I have lots of free time and willing to tutor Korean children or adults. I am from Canada, have 2 years experience of tutoring and teaching and I am currently tutoring two Korean adults. I am available Monday, Tuesday and Thursday mornings or after 7pm as well as Saturday and Sundays.
Please send me e-mail if you are interested. I am looking forward to hearing from you soon
* Location: Incheon
* Compensation: 25 000
* This is a part-time job.
* Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
* Please, no phone calls about this job!
* Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests. |
Shameless.  |
At least hes somewhat legal. "Principals Only"  |
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wintermute
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| air76 wrote: |
| I personally don't teach any privates...the risk/reward ratio isn't good enough....but it cracks me up this whole F-visa -vs- E-visa thing....what possible rationale (unless you're joking) is there to make one think that they "deserve" to make the big bucks doing privates over someone else simply because they married a Korean national? |
It is called THE LAW. The LAW states on an E2 you cannot work outside of your specific place of employment without permission.
It is funny as I know tons of E2s who do privates on the side and they have ZERO fear of being cause. Back in 1996/97 it was the same way, then the crackdown came and a lot of friends were caught and sent home. After that, there was some fear, but lately none at all.
I see E2s teaching privates in much the same way I see Mexicans going into America and working without proper visas or documentation. In both cases, the labor pool is large and therefore the competition gets stiff and the prices go down.
Crackdown on E2s and prices will go up again. |
Indeed. Profit comes from scarcity. In a perfect market no one makes a profit, as there will always be someone to undercut the price until it is no longer worth it to do so.
Organized crime uses threats or violence to restrict competition, a lot of the mega rich individuals in Asia made their money due to some sort of government awarded trade monopoly, and professional organizations place obstacles to entry or practice in their fields to keep their salaries high.
Koreans are paying too much for tutoring due to the restrictions the government places on the activity, since we have equally capable teachers (for the sake of argument) willing to do it for less. Those teachers who do find themselves at an advantage would naturally like to see it continue.
I'm not criticizing any of this or advocating any change, but we can't really judge people who will work for less or break some arbitrary law by doing privates on the side.
As long as they give a good service and feel satisfied with the money, it is not wrong, unfair or immoral. It may be illegal, but that is not really our concern. |
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cincynate
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: Jeju-do, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Who said this guy is teaching illegally. A lot of times you can get permission to teach with an E-2. I teach a night class of businessmen. I got permission from the POE, they filled out a form, immigration put another sticker in my passport, scribbled something in marker on the back of my ARC and I'm good to go. |
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air76
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| air76 wrote: |
| I personally don't teach any privates...the risk/reward ratio isn't good enough....but it cracks me up this whole F-visa -vs- E-visa thing....what possible rationale (unless you're joking) is there to make one think that they "deserve" to make the big bucks doing privates over someone else simply because they married a Korean national? |
It is called THE LAW. The LAW states on an E2 you cannot work outside of your specific place of employment without permission.
It is funny as I know tons of E2s who do privates on the side and they have ZERO fear of being cause. Back in 1996/97 it was the same way, then the crackdown came and a lot of friends were caught and sent home. After that, there was some fear, but lately none at all.
I see E2s teaching privates in much the same way I see Mexicans going into America and working without proper visas or documentation. In both cases, the labor pool is large and therefore the competition gets stiff and the prices go down.
Crackdown on E2s and prices will go up again. |
I realize that it is the law...my point is that many F-visa holders will say with a straight face that this law makes sense and is just. The reality is that the law is not in place to protect the F-visa holder's right to charge ludicrously high prices for private classes. As wintermute mentioned, what would be best for the Koreans would be to allow E-2 visa holders to have some privates (the same as F-visa holders are only allowed a certain number of privates, as are Koreans) that are taxed and registered. This would drive the price of a private lesson down to a level that is reasonable.
I don't care who you are or what your qualifications are...$50 or $60 per hour for a 1-on-1 English lesson for a 12 year old child who is learning the basics of the language is a rip-off for the customer. This product is not worth $50, and the only reason that it fetches that price is due to a lack of supply. Specialized or group classes should be worth this much, but those classes should still top out at around 70,000 won/hour, we're not lawyers, we're English teachers.
I am not saying that I don't like being paid more than I'm worth...of course I do...but I really have no sympathy for those who complain about the price of private lessons going down when they're still charging $30-40/hr, which is a more than reasonable rate for the product that you are providing.
We all break laws from time to time when we feel that the law is unjust or simply because we disagree with it...of course we put ourselves in a position to possibly be punished for this action, but we all do it for different reasons.
Mr. Pink....do you honestly believe that it is a fair and effective law (to all parties involved) to allow those who have married a Korean to teach privates and not those who have been living in Korea legally and productively for 2, 3, 5, or however many years?
What really kills me are the posts on here that will say something along the lines of "Oh, you need to marry a Korean girl and then you can do X." As if marrying a Korean is investing in some sort of commodity and that everyone with a *beep* must only be in Korea to marry a local. |
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Goon-Yang
Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Duh
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| Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Easter Clark wrote: |
This:
http://seoul.craigslist.co.kr/edu/1687950938.html
| Quote: |
Hello,
I am currently teaching part-time in Incheon, therefore I have lots of free time and willing to tutor Korean children or adults. I am from Canada, have 2 years experience of tutoring and teaching and I am currently tutoring two Korean adults. I am available Monday, Tuesday and Thursday mornings or after 7pm as well as Saturday and Sundays.
Please send me e-mail if you are interested. I am looking forward to hearing from you soon
* Location: Incheon
* Compensation: 25 000
* This is a part-time job.
* Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
* Please, no phone calls about this job!
* Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests. |
Shameless. |
Why not forward that to immigration and get the guy busted. One less to deal with. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| air76 wrote: |
| Mr. Pink wrote: |
| air76 wrote: |
| I personally don't teach any privates...the risk/reward ratio isn't good enough....but it cracks me up this whole F-visa -vs- E-visa thing....what possible rationale (unless you're joking) is there to make one think that they "deserve" to make the big bucks doing privates over someone else simply because they married a Korean national? |
It is called THE LAW. The LAW states on an E2 you cannot work outside of your specific place of employment without permission.
It is funny as I know tons of E2s who do privates on the side and they have ZERO fear of being cause. Back in 1996/97 it was the same way, then the crackdown came and a lot of friends were caught and sent home. After that, there was some fear, but lately none at all.
I see E2s teaching privates in much the same way I see Mexicans going into America and working without proper visas or documentation. In both cases, the labor pool is large and therefore the competition gets stiff and the prices go down.
Crackdown on E2s and prices will go up again. |
I realize that it is the law...my point is that many F-visa holders will say with a straight face that this law makes sense and is just. The reality is that the law is not in place to protect the F-visa holder's right to charge ludicrously high prices for private classes. As wintermute mentioned, what would be best for the Koreans would be to allow E-2 visa holders to have some privates (the same as F-visa holders are only allowed a certain number of privates, as are Koreans) that are taxed and registered. This would drive the price of a private lesson down to a level that is reasonable.
I don't care who you are or what your qualifications are...$50 or $60 per hour for a 1-on-1 English lesson for a 12 year old child who is learning the basics of the language is a rip-off for the customer. This product is not worth $50, and the only reason that it fetches that price is due to a lack of supply. Specialized or group classes should be worth this much, but those classes should still top out at around 70,000 won/hour, we're not lawyers, we're English teachers.
I am not saying that I don't like being paid more than I'm worth...of course I do...but I really have no sympathy for those who complain about the price of private lessons going down when they're still charging $30-40/hr, which is a more than reasonable rate for the product that you are providing.
We all break laws from time to time when we feel that the law is unjust or simply because we disagree with it...of course we put ourselves in a position to possibly be punished for this action, but we all do it for different reasons.
Mr. Pink....do you honestly believe that it is a fair and effective law (to all parties involved) to allow those who have married a Korean to teach privates and not those who have been living in Korea legally and productively for 2, 3, 5, or however many years?
What really kills me are the posts on here that will say something along the lines of "Oh, you need to marry a Korean girl and then you can do X." As if marrying a Korean is investing in some sort of commodity and that everyone with a *beep* must only be in Korea to marry a local. |
My stance on the issue is realistic. I believe there should be benefits to the F type of visa. That type of visa says you have a vested interest in the country.
With that said, I do believe that the government is rather limiting on who can obtain an F class visa. The new point system for the F-2-S is a joke. Those who have worked and lived in Korea for a set number of years should be entitled to some type of perm. residence. This would be the case in a number of Western countries.
I have an F visa due to marriage; however, I got married long before the F-2 for men was even a glint in some politician's eye. I followed the law on my E2 and did not do privates. I am not one to ever rub it in someone's eye either. I looked the other way several times when people I would work with who were on E2s did privates. I am not a rat.
There are a lot of valid E2, E1 and E7 teaching professionals that contribute to Korea in many ways. Why they cannot be given an F-class visa is beyond my understanding.
Having said all of the above, I still feel that professionals will be able to demand their worth in their teaching. It might seem to you it isn't worth $50 to teach 1 on 1 a boy with beginner English. If someone regularly makes approximately that much for one hour of their teaching, why can't they charge it? The student's parents do not have to pay if they feel they aren't getting value for their money.
The question then becomes what is value and how can Korean parents recognize it? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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air76...I will make it simple for you...
An E2 visa is a sponspored short term work visa. The person holding that visa is, under the law, a guest worker here for one-year stay. As such, there are normal labor restrictions, which include private lessons.
A F-visa is a residency visa. The person holding it is therefore a permanent resident in Korea and is no longer, in the legal sense, a short-term worker. With this, like with any residency status in many countries, come more labor rights.
That is par for the course.
Now...should private lessons be made legal for E2 teachers? I think they should because then the market would be somewhat regulated. E2s would, under such a system, still have to get permission from their employer and immigration, register and pay tax on the income. Why? The E2 would still be a sponsored visa.
As for value of the lessons...well what if parents decided 20 000 Won per hour was reasonable value? This can happen when they start having more offers in a more competitive market.....be careful what you wish for my friend. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:14 am Post subject: |
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I get paid 25/hr where I work and I feel like that is a fair wage. Great? No not really but my job is just so damn easy and I could be replaced with the snap of a finger. Yep REPLACED and I know it. This isn't 1996 anymore and I offer nothing specialized. I'm not saying my job is a joke and I don't take it seriously. I do and work very hard but at one point or another you have to look at what you are doing and think about it. People get paid similar wages back home and have a heck of a lot more stress and responsibility in their PROFESSIONS. I don't expect to be paid like a lawyer or psychologist offering specialized advice that very few people know. Lets look at my job:
Classroom management? None.
Discipline? None. Most of my students are adjossis from local companies.
Prep? Zilch.
I work 6 hours a day (study Korean in the morning) and have almost zero stress compared to any job that I had back home. Would I expect to be paid 40-50? Hell no. Even if I were paid that much I'd exploit the supply and demand discrepancy and gladly take it (who wouldn't?) but I'd also know that what I am doing is not worth that kind of money. I'm not doing anything specialized and my responsibility is nil. Billy Bob from back home could do this job for ten dollars an hour as long as he could carry a conversation, read a book and not speak with atrocious grammar.
I apologize that I've come here and wrecked the apparent gravy train but its just a beautiful thing called the free market. If you want to make more money then you have to offer more just like the rest of us. Get more specialized if you want to do privates. Grab an MBA. Tutor execs. At least you could converse about certain topics and would be a more suitable private teacher than a liberal arts grad without any business experience other than minimum wage summer jobs and teaching esl at a kid's hagwon.
Money can still be made here. It's just not going to fall into your lap like it did 10 years ago. If you are pissed off about that then I have no sympathy for you. |
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