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Ten hour days?
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madoka

Joined: 27 Mar 2008

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:49 am Post subject:

Senior wrote:

warmachinenkorea wrote:

caribmon wrote:

I would work 12 hours a day for 2.6 mil.

I make 2.5 and work 8hrs a day. Are you desperate?

While we are bragging, I work 8 hours and make 2.5.

He's not bragging; he's putting OP's question in context of what's available/possible so that the OP can make a comparison.

World Traveler

Joined: 29 May 2009

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject:

asylum seeker wrote:

World Traveler wrote:

balzor wrote:

Koreans work more hours and make less

Seoul had a GDP per capita of $31,095 in 2007.

Is that about 3 million a month given the exchange rate? (maybe slightly less?)

Put it this way: Only 22% of Americans have a college degree. Considering how educated we are, we are not making huge amounts of money compared to the locals.

Also, the per capita GDP for SK is significantly higher than it looks on paper because so many people here under report their income in order to cheat on taxes. Did you know that 6% of America's economy is underground (due in large part to illicit drugs I would guess), but that 30% of Korea's economy is underground?

South Korea's a rich country- one of the richest in the world.

GDP does not mean the same thing as average income. GNI per capita is the measure you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNI_(Gross_National_Income)_per_capita

They are very similar. Care to explain why I should be using GNI instead GDP?

Also, are you aware that the fact that many women in this country do not work at all is driving down the per capita income. In contrast, most married women in America do not have the luxury of opting out of the working world.

This article in the Korean Times lists the average annual income of Koreans as 40,000,000 won.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2010/02/123_60007.html

Do you make over 40,000,000 won a year? If the answer is no, then you are not rich compared to the locals.

In countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand, ESL teachers are paid much more than the locals, but this is not necessarily the case here.

Korea is a very wealthy country. The population is only 50 million, yet they have the 11th largest economy in the world.

2.6 million a month for 50 hour weeks is scandalously low. That's $11.71 an hour. Did you know that the typical salary for an adult male in the U.S. is $20.50 an hour? And most men don't have a four year degree or better. Restaurant managers average slightly less than $25 an hour. Waitresses make about this much too.

How about college grads?

Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/collegepays.htm

I don't agree that we are making tons of money for what we do here. (Consider that living here means that you are not building up credit, which is harmful to your credit score- something that is very important.

How much are parents spending to send their children to a Poly school? How much of this money reaches the foreign teachers who are teaching 11 classes a day?

Last edited by World Traveler on Sun May 16, 2010 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

madoka

Joined: 27 Mar 2008

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:36 am Post subject:

World Traveler wrote:

I don't agree that we are making tons of money for what we do here.

I guess people are flooding the ESL market, willing to leave their homes, friends and family, to come to Korea and teach out of the goodness of their hearts? However you want to slant the hours, wages and ignore things like free housing, lower cost of living, and double digit unemployment back home, you can't ignore the fact that people come to Korea because they make more than they do in their home countries. While I agree you don't make "tons" of money in Korea, for most of the people that choose to do it, it's because they make more than they otherwise would.

World Traveler wrote:

Restaurant managers average slightly less than $25 an hour. Waitresses make about this much too.

As a side note, I advertised for an entry level assistant position last year at $12 per hour. I got over 200 responses with everyone from MAs, college professors, and a minor league baseball player. I think that reflects just how bad the economy was last year.

mr.whiskers

Joined: 09 Dec 2009

Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:42 am Post subject:

World Traveler wrote:

Do you make over 40,000 won a year? If the answer is no, then you are not rich compared to the locals.

I make over 40,000 won a year.

World Traveler

Joined: 29 May 2009

Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:02 pm Post subject:

madoka wrote:

I guess people are flooding the ESL market, willing to leave their homes, friends and family, to come to Korea and teach out of the goodness of their hearts?

No, because they see a misleading ad, and naively sign up, not realizing what they are getting themselves into.

Also, the economy is bad, and people are desperate for a job.

madoka wrote:

you want to slant the hours

I'm not slanting the hours. Poly schools really do have ten hour days. For the amount of money they pay, it is not worth it.

madoka wrote:

ignore things like free housing

My school pays 300,000won a month for my apt. (And I have to pay all the added on management fees, so it is really not free housing).

300,000 divided by the hours worked in a month at a Poly school means a 90 cent per hour raise. Is that a lot of money?

madoka wrote:

lower cost of living

Besides transportation, what is cheap here? Certainly not food or clothing. South Korea, used to have a very low cost of living, but no more.

madoka wrote:

for most of the people that choose to do it, it's because they make more than they otherwise would

If back home they had college degrees, but couldn't make more than $10 an hour, then I'd say that they were not doing well for themselves. Leaving friends and family for an unfriendly environment where few people speak English in order to get a shoebox apartment and $27,000 a year isn't some amazingly good deal.

madoka wrote:

As a side note, I advertised for an entry level assistant position last year at $12 per hour. I got over 200 responses

What position was this? A professional career builder with room for advancement that would look great on a resume?

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject:

World Traveler wrote:

[q
If back home they had college degrees, but couldn't make more than $10 an hour, then I'd say that they were not doing well for themselves. Leaving friends and family for an unfriendly environment where few people speak English in order to get a shoebox apartment and $27,000 a year isn't some amazingly good deal.

[

So then why are you here?

peonnette

Joined: 21 Mar 2010

Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject:

Is it Kangnam Poly, by any chance? I just had a really bad experience with them. However, I think most teachers are fairly satisfied with the school--mine was more of an exception than the rule. You will be worked to the bone--expect to take work home and come in early to prep. There is constant observation and its very stressful. Lots of grading too.

PigeonFart

Joined: 27 Apr 2006

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:07 am Post subject:

I dont work for Poly, but those who work for Poly in Mokdong (yangcheon-gu, seoul) seem content.

caesar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:45 am Post subject:

There are definitely better teaching positions out there. If you are desperate and do take it, I would have them spell out in your contract the exact hours of work, number of classes, and break times. DO NOT ever assume you will get breaks. I've seen people work 9 hours with no breaks.

hagwonnewbie

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:13 am Post subject:

World Traveler wrote:

asylum seeker wrote:

World Traveler wrote:

balzor wrote:

Koreans work more hours and make less

GDP does not mean the same thing as average income. GNI per capita is the measure you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNI_(Gross_National_Income)_per_capita

They are very similar. Care to explain why I should be using GNI instead GDP?

Also, are you aware that the fact that many women in this country do not work at all is driving down the per capita income. In contrast, most married women in America do not have the luxury of opting out of the working world.

This article in the Korean Times lists the average annual income of Koreans as 40,000 won.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2010/02/123_60007.html

Do you make over 40,000 won a year? If the answer is no, then you are not rich compared to the locals.

In countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand, ESL teachers are paid much more than the locals, but this is not necessarily the case here.

Korea is a very wealthy country. The population is only 50 million, yet they have the 11th largest economy in the world.

2.6 million a month for 50 hour weeks is scandalously low. That's $11.71 an hour. Did you know that the typical salary for an adult male in the U.S. is $20.50 an hour? And most men don't have a four year degree or better. Restaurant managers average slightly less than $25 an hour. Waitresses make about this much too.

How about college grads?

Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/collegepays.htm

I don't agree that we are making tons of money for what we do here. (Consider that living here means that you are not building up credit, which is harmful to your credit score- something that is very important.

How much are parents spending to send their children to a Poly school? How much of this money reaches the foreign teachers who are teaching 11 classes a day?

Here we go again. Another math whiz telling us we only make 11 dollars an hour.

You didn't factor in the difference in tax, cost of housing, pension, severance and healthcare.

Consider medicare, state, city, federal tax, and Social Security (USA)

So a person earning 50 k in the US would take home 40 after all their deductions. Subtract another 5 to 10k for housing and additional health care costs, and you end up with the average American's income comparable to ours. Keep in mind that the average 18-90 something year old's income is 50k, not the average 18-28 years old's income, which is much less. In addition, the unemployment rate, at least in the US, for people 18-28 years old is like 30%.

In addition, there are many more opportunities for additional income here and lower transportation/dining costs. In fact, a lot of the services I enjoy like cable TV are cheaper here than back home.

Bottom line is I'm saving a lot more than my friends back home who are making over 60 k / year US dollars. Actually, I have some friends making over 100k who can barely save 2k dollars each month. Granted, I have a pretty good academy job, but there is a lot of potential here in Seoul for people who are serious about teaching and getting paid for it.

World Traveler

Joined: 29 May 2009

Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

So then why are you here?

This video changed my life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FZMwoY7DyM

jsis2358

Joined: 19 Oct 2009

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: "Good Hagwon's"

VanIslander wrote:

6 hour days are the standard at a good hagwon.

2-8 or 3-9. Show up, teach, go home. No deskwarming, no meetings, no lesson plans to be submitted.

Simple, easy, quick. I've been lovin' it for the better part of a decade.

Would those of you in the know about such working arrangements that exist as of 2010 please be so kind as to post or message me a brief list of a few schools and/or the best places on the net to find such positions?

asylum seeker

Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Location: On your computer screen.

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:57 am Post subject:

mr.whiskers wrote:

World Traveler wrote:

Do you make over 40,000 won a year? If the answer is no, then you are not rich compared to the locals.

I make over 40,000 won a year.

Me too.

caylia

Joined: 03 Mar 2010

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:27 am Post subject:

asylum seeker wrote:

mr.whiskers wrote:

World Traveler wrote:

Do you make over 40,000 won a year? If the answer is no, then you are not rich compared to the locals.

I make over 40,000 won a year.

Me too.

Isn't 40,000 KRW = $36 USD .. so did you mean 40,000,000 KRW??

teacherk

Joined: 19 Feb 2010

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: hours

The hours are a little long, but the pay is pretty good. Like anything it is a trade off. On your first position, you can not be too picky unless you have experience.

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