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Rumour that DPRK fired upon ROK Naval Ship
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big_fella1



Joined: 08 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Summer Wine wrote:
Quote:
What resources does it have?


Slave labour.

The Chinese expectency that thier lives will improve as Chinese wealth increases reduces the slave labour that China can offer.


I saw figures 2 years ago that a factory worker in China cost USD$4 per hour. Thailand was about USD$1.25 per hour.

North Korea charges US$60 per month for each Korean worker at Kaesong, this is less than USD$0.32 per hour per worker. These are the rich workers in North Korea. I believe South Korean companies will make a killing come reunification.

You can show all the figures between East and West Germany you want but they are completely irrelevant to what the Korean experience will be.

I do believe that there will have to be a Hong Kong style solution, which will restrict the travel and work freedoms of those from the North for a long period after reunification.
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coralreefer_1



Joined: 19 Jan 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I have been researching the idea that as the GDP of a nation increases, it will eventually be running trade deficits as manufacturing jobs are exported to countries that can provide that cheap labor that the nation cannot enjoy anymore as a result of increasing wealth and education of its own citizens. Even if a country is producing its own products in other countries, it is still recorded in the balance of payments as imports when those products come home.

However, can you imagine the protests that would literally tear the south apart if a reunification did in fact happen and S. Korean companies began taking advantage of the cheap labor abundant in the North by either bringing those workers into the country of work permits, or moving production activities into the North?

It would make the beef protests look like a humble university campus sit-in.
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...so back to the topic in hand.

The enemy has torpedoed and sunk a south korean warship and will not face any repercussions.

Is this a first in world history? Most countries would be at war already...
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Manner of Speaking



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not enough. At least not yet.

An "external explosion" destroyed the ship. On the one hand, it could have been:

1. a torpedo fired from a NK submarine
2. a NK mine
3. an old SK mine left over from the Korean War (although the latter seems
increasingly unlikely)

But how do you prove it was 1 or 2? I think the forensic experts may eventually be able to prove it was 1 or 2, but it may take months or even years to do so.

North Korea has been much more nonchalant about the whole incident than I expected. Assuming an errant sub captain did decide to take on the destroyer, against official orders, you'd see more of a paranoid response from the DPRK. But they've been much more laid back about the whole issue than I expected. That could mean one of two things:

1. they didn't do it.
2. they did do it and it was a deliberate decision that came from the very top.

Let's assume the worst: a NK sub did sink the destroyer, but there is no way for South Korea to prove it. And NK got away with conducting a test of their latest torpedo with no consequences. In which case, the best and most obvious response would be for South Korea to ramp up its ASW capabilities, INTENSELY, and ensure that a similar sneak attack will never again be successful. And if they do detect a NK sub in SK waters, depth-charge the living daylights out of it to make sure a similar attack doesn't happen again.
-
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Manner of Speaking



Joined: 09 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole thing is starting to remind me of an episode of Star Trek: TOS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_Terror
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manner of Speaking wrote:
This whole thing is starting to remind me of an episode of Star Trek: TOS:


I don't think they were so spineless and inept though.
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tiger fancini



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nautilus wrote:
...so back to the topic in hand.

The enemy has torpedoed and sunk a south korean warship and will not face any repercussions.


If by "The Enemy" you mean North Korea, it will first have to be proven that they are responsible. Then the repercussions will follow.

nautilus wrote:
Is this a first in world history? Most countries would be at war already...


Read this.
http://www.freekorea.us/2010/04/17/avoiding-the-next-korean-war/
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nautilus



Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tiger fancini wrote:
nautilus wrote:
...so back to the topic in hand.

The enemy has torpedoed and sunk a south korean warship and will not face any repercussions.


If by "The Enemy" you mean North Korea, it will first have to be proven that they are responsible. Then the repercussions will follow.

nautilus wrote:
Is this a first in world history? Most countries would be at war already...


Read this.
http://www.freekorea.us/2010/04/17/avoiding-the-next-korean-war/


Ok thanks, thats a good general rundown of the options available.
I wonder what LMB's 'decisive response" will be. Either way, its horrendous that all those young guys had to die like that.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63L08W20100422

Quote:
SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korea's military believes a torpedo fired from a North Korean submarine sank its navy ship last month, based on intelligence gathered jointly with the United States, a news report said on Thursday.


The ROK is in a very difficult position. They can not allow the DPRK to sink their ships without consequence. What to do?
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was deliberate, why are we choosing to believe that the North is doing to provoke the South and are not the ones trying not to look weak?

The North is more scared of the South than the South is of them. I've said it before on multiple threads, if you look at things and how the two sides stack up you realize that the North should be terrified of the South, not the other way around.

Now thinking more about it, I'm almost willing to bet that this was arranged. Probably to either ensure stability OR to strengthen a sympathetic North Korean faction by making them 'look strong'. South Koreans offer up an outdated corvette and 46 sailors in return for strengthening those sympathetic to them in the North.

Probably the military is the beneficiary of this and out of all the factions in North Korea, I think the military is probably one of the more moderate and sympathetic ones.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick close to your desks and never go to sea and you all may be rulers of the Korean Navy.
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TL



Joined: 30 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though it has been confirmed that a torpedo sank the ship, I don't see SK doing anything as long as China and the US remain uninterested in going to war with each other.
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blackjack



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nautilus wrote:
...so back to the topic in hand.

The enemy has torpedoed and sunk a south korean warship and will not face any repercussions.

Is this a first in world history? Most countries would be at war already...


France blew up a ship in a NZ harbour. Sure it would have been a bit of a joke to declare war on France. Not really the same but France really didn't get any punishment, plus we had to return the people that did it
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TL



Joined: 30 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: South Korea to officially blame North Korea Reply with quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/18/AR2010051803094.html?hpid=topnews

Quote:
South Korea will formally blame North Korea on Thursday for launching a torpedo at one of its warships in March, causing an explosion that killed 46 sailors and heightened tensions in one of the world's most perilous regions, U.S. and East Asian officials said.


It's official now.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nautilus wrote:
...so back to the topic in hand.

The enemy has torpedoed and sunk a south korean warship and will not face any repercussions.

Is this a first in world history? Most countries would be at war already...



Most countries don't have ANOTHER country controlling their forces in war-time though...
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