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PigeonFart
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:31 am Post subject: Re: North Korea torpedo sank S.Korean ship |
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| PigeonFart wrote: |
| Or maybe not. |
This. |
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sesyeux
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Location: king 'arrys
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| late pass |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: North Korea torpedo sank S.Korean ship |
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| PigeonFart wrote: |
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7104498.ece
The article above might chill you to the bone if you live in Seoul (or anywhere else in Korea for that matter). Or maybe not. |
No, but I had to shut my window late last night because it got a bit chilly |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| It's hard to believe they are announcing this a few hours ago. Well, that's an outright aggressive act of war on the DPRK's part. I guess if someone attacked my country and I was president, I'd be out to skin em' alive like today or while they were enjoying their sleep tonight with my ROK ready army. Hard to say where they are going with this conflict, but it's obvious the ROK has no interest in war to the point they probably will not do anything even if provoked and deliberately attacked on South Korean soil. |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
| It's hard to believe they are announcing this a few hours ago. Well, that's an outright aggressive act of war on the DPRK's part. I guess if someone attacked my country and I was president, I'd be out to skin em' alive like today or while they were enjoying their sleep tonight with my ROK ready army. Hard to say where they are going with this conflict, but it's obvious the ROK has no interest in war to the point they probably will not do anything even if provoked and deliberately attacked on South Korean soil. |
I'm guessing sanctions and maybe an end to the "Sunshine Policy", and that'll be it unless there's more attacks. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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President Lee doesn't react: He is accused of being cowardly.
President Lee does act: He is accused of ruining the economy.
I wouldn't want to be the man at this moment. Tough decisions. Awful news. Not surprising at all though. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
President Lee doesn't react: He is accused of being cowardly.
President Lee does act: He is accused of ruining the economy.
I wouldn't want to be the man at this moment. Tough decisions. Awful news. Not surprising at all though. |
That's true, it's a catch 22 situation. If the ROK goes to war, then the economy takes a nose dive, if the ROK doesn't go to war, then it's a fickle coward. I understand the ROK is trying to be diplomatic to the point of bending over backwards as to protect the peace and economic interests. As with any conflicts, they usually eventually come to a nasty climax such as outright vindictive fight. Not only does the ROK not want to fight the DPRK, they realize the DPRK are also Korean. Call them their other half if you will. If and when there's a fight, I hope we can safely get a flight out as silly as that might sound. My relatives are actually concerned for my safety in an email today, but I assured them why the Korea's won't have a war any time soon even though it's well over due for one. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
| Not only does the ROK not want to fight the DPRK, they realize the DPRK are also Korean. |
A few years ago, I was enrolled in an international relations class in the US. One of my classmates was from Korea and she said something that shocked the rest of us, including the instructor:
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| South Korea and North Korea will never reunify. The countries and societies are now too different. They are no longer the same country in any way whatsoever. Reunification is an unrealisticc and impossible dream. |
It didn't take her long to convince us of the truth of that. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Wow, I'm sure the 2 Korea's are very different in how developed the South is compared to the North, but they could make amends and reunify if the South felt an economic benefit to work towards it. It's not necessary, because the South can bring in South Asian foreign workers to do the dirty low paying work and it would cost enormous sums to upgrade the North as to make it congruent with the South. And then if the North Koreans are given citizenship and rights that South Koreans enjoy, their would be discrimination issues and many complex civil matters to deal with as a result. South Korea is all about money and materialism for it's own and isn't concerned with sharing it with the North even if it's the right to do in the long run. They simply don't want anything to do with their other half and wish they'd just go away.
I would imagine the old Korea is up North... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: |
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From the article...
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President Lee�s conservative Government prides itself on taking a tough attitude to North Korean aggression, in contrast to its liberal predecessors, who sometimes played down provocations in the interests of good long-term relations with Pyongyang. �If they fire two bullets at us, we will fire three or four back,� a government official told The Times last year. �If they fire on us from a shore battery, we will take it out.�
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The Grand Nationals didn't exactly go in guns-ablazin' when the Norks shot and killed an innocent South Korean tourist at that holiday resort a year ago. So I'll be maintaining a bit of skepticism about this supposedly tough new approach from South Korea.
Like I've said before, I think there will ultimately prove to be a general continuity between the DJ/Roh approach and the LMB approach to North Korea. Sunshine, despite being dolled up in a lot of peace-love-dove wrapping, was, at bottom, about practical geopolitical interests, which LMB is likely to consider as well. Despite his rhetorical pandering to the old guys in plaid jackets waving around photos of General MacArthur. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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NK is like that miserable killjoy at a party who likes to antagonise everyone and prevent them having a good time.
if SK takes the bait then NK will have won somehow. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Why is a retaliatory strike out of the question? Like for like. Torpedoing a ship in North Korean waters won't necessarily incite WWIII.
I don't know. Maybe someone with a better acquaintance with the military can explain it to me. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Why is a retaliatory strike out of the question? Like for like. Torpedoing a ship in North Korean waters won't necessarily incite WWIII.
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Well, I don't know if Andrei Lankov is any sort of an expert on how wars start and the consequences of retaliation. However, for what it's worth, his take on matters...
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Limited actions, such as raids against the North Korean naval and military installations, would make the Seoul government look strong in the eyes of voters, but would create many problems for which the same voters would soon start blaming the government.
Plus, such raids are useless. Kim Jong Il and his henchmen would not lose sleep if they learned that a few dozen North Korean sailors or soldiers were killed in a South Korean attack. In the North, even the death of many thousands is politically irrelevant so long as they are not members of Kim�s inner circle. At the same time, such raids would scare investors away from South Korea and damage its financial rating.
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I suppose that limited raids would make the North aware that the South is willing to take things to the next level. But is the South really prepared to go all the way, if neccessary? As Lankov points out elsewhere in the article, the consequences of an escalated war would be pretty severe.
link |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:06 am Post subject: |
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If they decide to retaliate, then torpedo-ing 2 NK ships at roughly the same time would be about right. Then deny involvement like a cowardly liar. Sadly, KJI wouldn't see the irony in it.
2 eyes for an eye. Sounds about right. |
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