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What are the most reliable autos?
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rainbow brite



Joined: 14 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: What are the most reliable autos? Reply with quote

I am buying a car. It will def be an older model. In your experience, what do you recommend as a reliable car? Alternatively, what should I stay away from? Thanks.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the most reliable autos? Reply with quote

rainbow brite wrote:
I am buying a car. It will def be an older model. In your experience, what do you recommend as a reliable car? Alternatively, what should I stay away from? Thanks.


If you can somehow get your hands on the latest Consumer Report's special auto edition many of your questions regarding reliability and customer satisfaction will be answered(even for Korean made cars). Even if you have to pay to join their online site, it would almost 100% guaranteed be money well spent IMHO.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I just checked their site. You can join for one month and then cancel if you want for only $5.95. For that they will tell you not only the most reliable used cars, but also the ones to stay away from.

Last edited by Sector7G on Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chambertin



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: Gunsan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stay far far away from Daewoo if it wasn�t built in the past couple years.
Even then I wouldn�t touch em.

I Sold Daewoo in the US and the Dealer dropped the line the cars were so horrid. However He LOVED all the money he made in the repair shop.
By far the worst cars I've ever seen.

I have an old Hyundai, they seem to be very good cars in general.
KIA would be my #2 pick, they aren�t the best, but not far behind.

I see a lot of Accents, and Avantes running around.
But the best bet is to stick to a manufacturer and then evaluate the car on an individual basis.

In my opinion Consumer reports isn�t worth much even if you buy a new product.
When you find a car you like, then look at its condition and who drove it.
The driver can make much more a difference than the info you see from a reviewer. Did they take care of it? Were they hard on the car? Etc.

Finally look up the car on google, there will be a wealth of info firsthand from owners and such on any number of forums to give you an idea about the experience.

Again, Consumer Reports has been obsolete since the first BBS's got popular, their info is much better, free, and 100% unbiased. Remember Consumer Reports makes their money from advertising.

Another note:
Many Korean cars have a name change issue. The domestic car and the foriegn cars have the same names, but they are completely different. Dont automatically trust the foriegn reviews.


Last edited by Chambertin on Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every year JD Powers puts out a list of the most reliable cars as determined by surveying thousands of customers who have owned and driven their cars for three years. Here is the 2010 press release (so the cars ranked are actually from 2007 having been used for three years)
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2010034
Lexus had been the best on this list for something like 12 straight years. They were beat last year by Buick and this year are tied with Buick for 3rd behind Porsche and Lincoln. Ford has been doing a good job lately. Ford, Lincoln and Mercury are all in the top eight. Hyundai is above the industy average. You might be surprised to see where Volkwagen and Audi are.

From the link:
Quote:
The study, which measures problems experienced by original owners of three-year-old (2007 model year) vehicles, includes 198 different problem symptoms across all areas of the vehicle. Overall dependability is determined by the level of problems experienced per 100 vehicles (PP100), with a lower score reflecting higher quality.

The Vehicle Dependability Study is used extensively by vehicle manufacturers worldwide to help design and build better vehicles-which typically translates to higher resale values-and by consumers to help them make more-informed choices for both new- and used- vehicle purchases. According to J.D. Power and Associates, among new-vehicle shoppers, perception of quality and dependability is the most influential factor in their decision to purchase a specific vehicle model.

The study finds that several brands that perform well in long-term dependability in 2010 are avoided at relatively high rates due to consumer concerns about dependability.1 Among brands included in VDS, Cadillac, Ford, Hyundai, Lincoln and Mercury have the greatest lags between dependability performance and consumer perception.
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chambertin wrote:


In my opinion Consumer reports isn�t worth much even if you buy a new product.
When you find a car you like, then look at its condition and who drove it.
The driver can make much more a difference than the info you see from a reviewer. Did they take care of it? Were they hard on the car? Etc.

Finally look up the car on google, there will be a wealth of info firsthand from owners and such on any number of forums to give you an idea about the experience.

Again, Consumer Reports has been obsolete since the first BBS's got popular, their info is much better, free, and 100% unbiased. Remember Consumer Reports makes their money from advertising.



I won't comment on most of what you say because it is just your opinion and you are certainly entitled to that.

However Consumer Reports takes NO- repeat No - outside advertising, therefore they are 100% unbiased. This is pretty widely known by people familiar with the magazine. The fact that you missed it makes me question what you are basing your opinions on.
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madoka



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flakfizer wrote:

Lexus had been the best on this list for something like 12 straight years. They were beat last year by Buick and this year are tied with Buick for 3rd behind Porsche and Lincoln.


It was 12 times in 20 years to be exact. Lexus won in 09 and Porsche won for the three years previous to that. Both companies charge an arm and a leg for repairs/maintenance/replacement parts, so it's a good thing they are fairly reliable.

I just got back 3 days ago from the Porsche dealer for one stitch that was broken on the door handle:

http://i40.tinypic.com/1z6al1.jpg

It cost $600! Shocked

Last time I was at the Lexus dealer for my $250 oil change, they scratched one of my rims. The replacement cost for that ONE wheel is close to $2000!
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Sector7G



Joined: 24 May 2008

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chambertin wrote:



When you find a car you like, then look at its condition and who drove it.
The driver can make much more a difference than the info you see from a reviewer. Did they take care of it? Were they hard on the car? Etc.

Finally look up the car on google, there will be a wealth of info firsthand from owners and such on any number of forums to give you an idea about the experience.


Ok just 2 more things.

First, I thought present condition and regular maintenance were obvious things to consider and thus should have gone with out saying. The point is, everything else being equal, some cars have a better reliability record than others.

Second, the way CR gathers this reliability data is firsthand from owners' experience-just like you mentioned.

I do concede that much of this information is now available for free if you look it up.
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Chambertin



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Location: Gunsan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, they are my opinions, and they are not the only ones.

The last time I picked a Consumer Reports up was years ago, and I remember advertisements being in it. Maybe my memory isn't clear.
My parents were all about it, I wasn�t.
I did check and yeah they say no outside advertising. So all their money comes from subscriptions? I find it hard to believe.

Still, my mistake, I jumped to conclusions rather than checking facts.

I never liked the magazine as I think real life reviews are much more telling than some lab test. Double so for used goods, a lot changes after 3 years, it is a whole new world after 10.

EDIT: Yes CR takes firsthand info, but they take a sample. That sample may not be as reliable as the sample of information you chose to utilize. I think putting your buying decision in their hands is not the best way to do it. It limits your perspective greatly.
Remember, CR faces lawsuits and all kinds of things on every word they write, that is a limiting factor already. Sure this is crap, but we need some technical data to support it, if we can�t find it then it�s hard to say "this is crap".
An individual can just say, this is crap, the bottoms don�t feel right.

Second if they dont do something to sell the mag then they dont make money. They can inflate specs, and do other things to cause a stir to ramp up readership, so long as they can find a fact to support it. Do they? Who knows, but companies have suspected them of doing so, and even taken them to court over it.

I'm not saying CR is useless, I just think it isn�t as useful as people think it is.
And that's my Opinoin, take it for what it is worth.

Bottom line is to evaluate the car, not the name.
There are even really good Daewoos out there, I just never ran into one.
Some Hyundais are terrible, but I dont see many of them.


Last edited by Chambertin on Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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air76



Joined: 13 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is so cheap to get cars worked on in Korea that you don't need to stress about it too much. For 2,000,000 won you can get a really nice used car....and for 500,000-1,000,000 you can get a car that runs fine and is cheap to maintain.
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flakfizer



Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madoka wrote:
flakfizer wrote:

Lexus had been the best on this list for something like 12 straight years. They were beat last year by Buick and this year are tied with Buick for 3rd behind Porsche and Lincoln.


It was 12 times in 20 years to be exact. Lexus won in 09 and Porsche won for the three years previous to that.

You may be confusing their initial quality ratings with their dependability ratings. Here are the results of the 2009 VDS (vehicle dependability study): http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2009/03/buick-jaguar-unseat-lexus-atop-jd-power-reliability-study.html
Buick and Jaguar were on top last year.

In initial quality, Lexus was indeed first last year:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread/t-268921.html
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madoka



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flakfizer wrote:
You may be confusing their initial quality ratings with their dependability ratings.


I stand corrected - you are right. Lexus did win 12 years in a row.
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hellofaniceguy



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

madoka wrote:
flakfizer wrote:
You may be confusing their initial quality ratings with their dependability ratings.


I stand corrected - you are right. Lexus did win 12 years in a row.


A Lexus is nothing more than a Toyota, same company.....an expensive Toyota. And actually, the Toyota Avalon...top of the line under the Toyota name is better than the few low to middle priced Lexus line up.
Bucause you're in korea....stick with a car made in korea....parts availability and mechanics. Otherwise, I'd stay away from korean cars.
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madoka



Joined: 27 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellofaniceguy wrote:
A Lexus is nothing more than a Toyota, same company.....an expensive Toyota.


And using this asinine reasoning you would conclude that an Audi is nothing more than an expensive VW. Or that Ferraris are expensive Fiats. Or that Rolls-Royces are expensive BMWs. Or that Jaguar is nothing more than a super expensive Tata. And for several years, MB was nothing more than an expensive Chrysler. Rolling Eyes
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rainbow brite



Joined: 14 Nov 2009

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input! Very Happy
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