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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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 Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: "You're guilty, whitey!" |
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Read the replies by anonymous and cynicwhome. They're pretty enjoyable. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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In a slightly mean-spirited Darwinist way, I enjoy the fact that their speech is so filled with esoteric and contradictory terms and labels. While they debate how many racists can stand on the head of a pin, they not only make everyone else roll their eyes and laugh off their cause, they're also too neurotic to reproduce.
The National Post is a rather right-wing newspaper, or about as right-wing as you get in Canada. Still, it's fun to see that the reporter wasn't having any of it and is reporting the story so sarcastically. I don't believe the event is an exaggeration. I remember hearing about womyn's conferences in Canada having papers about issues like the light bulb being a male aggressor for violating the socket. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Moreover, I was guilty of "democratic racism" -- by which we apply ostensibly race-neutral principles such as "due process," constantly demanding clear "evidence" of wrongdoing, rather than confronting prima facie instances of racism head-on. "It seems we're always looking for more proof," said the instructor, an energetic left-wing activist who's been teaching this course for several years. "When it comes to racism, you have to trust your gut." |
Of course, if one's gut were to say, "Well, Jim from the example probably isn't a racist," it would probably not be considered so trustworthy by this person. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: |
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All of the students were white (to my eyes, anyway). And most were involved in what might broadly be termed the anti-racism industry -- an overlapping hodgepodge of community-outreach activists, equity officers, women's studies instructors and the like.
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If this is true, then whatever damage done by such courses would probably be fairly limited in terms of the broader society, since it sounds like everyone there is probably from a sector where most people are probably wanting to believe what's being taught there anyway. Worst case scenario: someone's women's studies class becomes slightly more confrontational as a result of the prof taking that course.
And in fairness, the workshop doesn't sound much lamer than what I've experienced from motivational speakers at corporate seminars I've attended at the behest of employers. I remember one woman who began by asking us to make a list of the three most important people in our lives. When we were done, she asked us if we had named ourselves on the list, and if we hadn't, we were supposed to put our name at the very top. And it did not get better from there.
At the same conference, I had to listen to a guy who looked like a better-dressed version of Dr. Johnny Fever. His whole schtick consisted of telling us all about how "things are really changing, it's a different world out there, not like it was ten or even five years ago". Few if any examples were provided of the phenomenon he was talking about. At the end, he did some old party trick where he asked us a series of questions, each having the same answer, which we were only supposed to answer in our heads. But the last question, which had a different answer that was similar to the others, we were supposed to answer out loud, the idea being that we'd probably reply with the answer we'd been giving to the other questions. This was meant to illustrate the point that "things aren't always what you expect them to be".
Granted, the racism workshops sound a little more on the confrontational side. But, like I say, that's probably what the participants went in wanting to hear. |
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kcs0001
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Blacks have & will continue to chase the largely white tax base no matter where it is. They continue to complain while being the beneficiaries of affirmative action. Funny how no one is heading for the exits. More African Blacks have emigrated from Africa to North America since the ante bellum than were ever imported as slaves. |
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travel zen
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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"We?"
Your ancestors were probably fish farmers in Romania from 1600-1800. I never liked that 'we' and 'you' attitude 
Funny how more immigrants from Asia and South Asia have come to North America than any other group, yet 'black people' are still a number one 'threat' to racists and haters. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| travel zen wrote: |
Funny how more immigrants from Asia and South Asia have come to North America than any other group, yet 'black people' are still a number one 'threat' to racists and haters. |
Violence. The astonishing amount of violence. That's the source of anger. |
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travel zen
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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In the USA ?
I bet there is more violence from the majority caucasians than from black people, even the poorest ones living without hope.
I live in a rich area in Toronto and I see that these rich kids (mostly immigrants from Iran, Isreal, China, etc) are more violent and prone to commit crimes than any poor black kids in poorer neigborhoods because they know that they will be bailed out with daddys money. Everything is fun for these rich kids.
So I don't buy black people being violent and 'dumb' and all the other sweet American stereotypes. And please don't sell me any of that "such and such immigrants are model people who always go to school and to church/temple and always obey rules" It's all narrow stereotypes and simple racism.
And that's the rub, hate and racism. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Go find the crime stats by race. The amount of violence from AA's is astonishing. It is also many factors more likely for a black to harm a white than a white to harm a black. It is likely the case that on aggregate whites commit more violence because more of them exist. To the extent that whites are upset with blacks it is almost entirely due to black behavior. Only around 10% of whites think blacks inferior (more blacks hold that belief).
http://inductivist.blogspot.com/2010/03/blacks-give-reasons-for-black-poverty.html
Stories like this are incredibly frequent in local papers in the US:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/2193018,bucktown-chicago-baseball-bat-042310.article
Bizarre, incredible violence.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mBasfSNyWbg/R_p6_jWHRLI/AAAAAAAAA0Y/TJsGLDJkfYM/S1600-R/Homicide+Offenders+by+Race+1976-2005.bmp
http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon2007-04-02hm.html
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| Though blacks, 24 percent of New York City�s population, committed 68.5 percent of all murders, rapes, robberies, and assaults in the city |
After 9/11 I was all about discussing "why do they hate us". I never had any opposition to an examination of root causes for their actions. That extends to this. Why are whites, to the extent they are, upset with blacks? Crime. That's it. There are a wide variety of reasons for why the crime rate is what it is. Acknowledging that there are root causes for the opinions of whites/Asians/Hispanics et al isn't racist. Nor is it racist to find whites frustrated at the little Baghdad's sprinkled throughout the US. We all know about the history, the slavery and injustice. That doesn't change the reality of diminished safety.
And it isn't just poverty. Poor Hispanics and Asians (and whites) don't commit near the level of crime that poor blacks commit.
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2010/mar/01/00022/ |
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travel zen
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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So weird
Your point is almost Nazi-like. Blacks (Africans?) are genetically prone to violence. They are violent, they are black. Blacks are violent.
That's all you seem to say. How bizarre.
History of America ? Simply brutal. We can agree. Even the British were less brutal and racialized. But has things changed? The laws, the attitudes, the social aspect of what started 400 years ago?
Do you know the history? How far has America changed? A black President is nice, but it doesn't mean America has changed 100%?
Your pounding on black people and 'statistics' that I would never believe, no matter what sketchy source, is pretty blatant buddy. I know too many people who would say the same things you say about Arabs, or Chinese, or Irish. They are just scared, or jealous or something. Don't be afraid of black people..some would remind you of your mother, father or best friend. Seriously. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| travel zen wrote: |
So weird
Your point is almost Nazi-like. Blacks (Africans?) are genetically prone to violence. They are violent, they are black. Blacks are violent.
That's all you seem to say. How bizarre.
History of America ? Simply brutal. We can agree. Even the British were less brutal and racialized. But has things changed? The laws, the attitudes, the social aspect of what started 400 years ago?
Do you know the history? How far has America changed? A black President is nice, but it doesn't mean America has changed 100%?
Your pounding on black people and 'statistics' that I would never believe, no matter what sketchy source, is pretty blatant buddy. I know too many people who would say the same things you say about Arabs, or Chinese, or Irish. They are just scared, or jealous or something. Don't be afraid of black people..some would remind you of your mother, father or best friend. Seriously. |
You are twisting Mises's words. He didn't state that black people are genetically prone to crime. You stated that Caucasians are more likely to commit crimes and certain groups are more likely to commit crimes, and no one called you racist like and what not.
He stated that based on statistics, a larger percentage of African Americans commit crimes. If you want to say it connects to the brutal oppression of African Americans from the 1700s until the early 70s, I won't disagree with you, but it doesn't change the statistics. It would be like saying in Europe, Albania has a higher crime rate than say Germany or Sweden.
I knew a First Nations Canadian who clenched his fists when white kids walked up behind him. Why? He used to get jumped in the past.
People do operate based on fear, but some people are way too much.
A friend of mine got stopped in daylight while driving black in West Virginia, and he wasn't even speeding, was wearing professional clothing, wasn't driving a sport's car, is a PHD candidate, and very clean cut. Racism against African Americans have largely caused many to be the way they are just as Native Americans turned to alcohol in crime after they were decimate, and affirmative action doesn't fix the legacy of racism and despair in the inner city.
Afghans turn to growing opium, because they have no hope for anything else. What hope do African Americans outside of the mainstream? Not much, that's why many drop out. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Afghans turn to growing opium, because they have no hope for anything else. What hope do African Americans outside of the mainstream? Not much, that's why many drop out. |
I don't think comparing the Afghans and African Americans is really fair in this context. The people of Afghanistan live in a failure of a nation. Unless they immigrate, there really isn't much there for them. On the other hand, African Americans have plenty of opportunities in the United States of America. In fact, statistically speaking they probably have an atypically large amount of opportunity availible to them. Affirmative action, scholarships focused on the black community, colleges and businesses embracing the concept of diversity being good in-and-of-itself. These all create opportunities for blacks (and other minorities as well). I'd hardly call that comparable to the despair of life in Afghanistan. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Afghans turn to growing opium, because they have no hope for anything else. What hope do African Americans outside of the mainstream? Not much, that's why many drop out. |
I don't think comparing the Afghans and African Americans is really fair in this context. The people of Afghanistan live in a failure of a nation. Unless they immigrate, there really isn't much there for them. On the other hand, African Americans have plenty of opportunities in the United States of America. In fact, statistically speaking they probably have an atypically large amount of opportunity availible to them. Affirmative action, scholarships focused on the black community, colleges and businesses embracing the concept of diversity being good in-and-of-itself. These all create opportunities for blacks (and other minorities as well). I'd hardly call that comparable to the despair of life in Afghanistan. |
I take it from your post, you think many of them whine when they have lots of opportunity. However, America is segregated. They are often raised in neighborhoods and that's what many of them know. There is a lot of culture of failure, collective low self-esteem. So, they may not be in Afghanistan, but they lived in failed, crumbling parts of America and often resort to an illegal trade. There are scholarships, but aware are they of how they can change things? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| I take it from your post, you think many of them whine when they have lots of opportunity. |
Well, I'm not going to talk about who is or isn't whining, but the fact is that sufficient opportunity exists. Blacks aren't being kept down by external forces. External forces are offering blacks a step up.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| However, America is segregated. They are often raised in neighborhoods and that's what many of them know. There is a lot of culture of failure, collective low self-esteem. |
I agree, I've said this before. However, this doesn't result in a lack of opportunity, just in a lack of willingness to accept opportunity. More importantly, it's purely self-imposed. Outsiders cannot change the culture in question, no matter what we do. However, an individual black person can choose to reject said culture and embrace the many opportunities he has availible to him. That, in my eyes, is the crucial distinction between blacks in America, and Afghanis in Afghanistan. Even if an Afghani realizes their culture isn't working so well, there's precious little he can do about it without leaving the country. A black who decides he doesn't want to live by the values of black culture has abundant opportunities in his own country. |
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