Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Begemot]

Hi people,

I've been watching these forums for over a year now, and first of all kudos to all of you for maintaining such a vibrant online community and for providing good advice to posters, no matter how clueless and neurotic they are.

I know this was asked before, but attitudes and job markets change, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask again. I was born in Russia, then I moved to another country and learned another language, and then I moved to the States, right after finishing high school. My English is pretty much native level; I finished a top ranked university in the United States with honors, and my English is quite a bit better than my Russian (in fact I would not feel comfortable teaching Russian, at least not without some additional training). I am planning to go to Korea this summer, but all the applications I've received require me to have studied in middle school and high school in an English speaking country.

So there it is: I have a BA from an American University, an American passport (stating however that my city of birth is Moscow, though I suppose I could argue that it refers to Moscow, Idaho) a TESOL certificate and a very slight accent (definitely not a Russian one, some Americans think that I'm native born, most sense the accent but can't pin point it). Should I give it a try, possibly even lie about my secondary education, or would it make more sense to look for a country where the native-fetish culture is not as pronounced as it is in Korea.

Any tips would be welcome. And yes, if I'm being objective, I can see that Koreans may have a point in wanting to only hire native speakers; since many Koreans are not great English speakers, they want to have some quality control over their teachers without introducing complicated testing systems and such. But subjectively, for me it sucks!

[SNOTOSEOUL]

I have never had them ask me about my middle and high school education. If they do, do you really think they will attempt to search "jefferson high school" in google find the right JHS, and try and contact its principle for a reference?

Maybe this is a "bad" or dishonest outlook, but to each thier own.

[reactionary]

you're an american and you have a BA from an american uni. go for it.

[Begemot]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I know that they wouldn't try to contact the random high school I would list. I'm a little worried that they may ask me for a certificate from that school, once they see that my city of birth is not in the U.S. But I suppose that even then all I have to lose is my dignity, so I think I'll take the plunge. It feels a bit dishonest, but I don't feel I'd be cheating the students, only the recruiters, as my English is really quite good.

[vaticanhotline]

I believe the rule is that if you are not from a native speakng country, then you have to have lived there from at least the age of 8. It might be older though; ttom is the man in the know on this board. As for coming to Korea...I don't know dude, if you get caught, you probably won't get thrown in jail, but you will be out a hefty wad of cash. There are other countries you can go to where it's not as restrictive.

[bde2]

I'm pretty sure they'll see your American passport, BA, etc., and won't ask any questions.

I'm certainly not the expert, but from what I've seen about how the Koreans operate, they won't do a lot of digging as long as you have that American passport/BA.

I wouldn't worry about your English level either... As long as you can talk as well as you write, you'll be fine. There are some South African teachers here who are really nowhere near "native" level (no offense to those who are).

[Begemot]

[ttompatz]

[TeeRev]

I knew a girl who is Gyopo (Korean born) but was adopted as a child by a family in the Netherlands. She grew up there. I'm not sure where she studied, but she was and still is (as far as I know) an ESL teacher here in Korea. So English was definately not her 1st language, she is not white, and she had an accent. I would think you shouldn't have a problem. Good luck to you.

[young_clinton]

You have to have attended a parochial school that was taught in English to be considered a native speaker. If you're not a native speaker you're not supposed to be able to get an E2 visa fromimmigration.

[afsjesse]

[English Matt]

[Troglodyte]

OP. Be warned in advance that there is a big stigma here against non-native English teachers. If you get employment here (which you probably will) then NEVER EVER EVER under any circumstances tell your boss, co-worker, students or anyone that might come in contact with those people, that you were not born in the USA. If you do, then every single time that someone thinks you made a mistake, they will say that they're right and you're wrong because your not a native speaker. If someone doesn't like you, they'll criticise you or your ability or something else... because your not a native speaker and couldn't possibly (in their eyes) be even near fluent in English. Same stigma in China and Japan. I've heard that in Taiwan they're cool with having non-native (non-local) English teachers. Probably there are other countries in Asia that are open minded and not stuck in this mentality that Koreans have but here this is how it is. THEY can't become fluent in foreign languages so they figure no one else can either.

As far as an accent goes, it's rare indeed to find a Korean who can distinguish an accent in English (regional or non-native alike). Don't tell them, and they won't hear it. Tell them, and right away, all of them will swear that they can hear it.


Something else to consider. Hogwans are less likely than public schools to care if you truly are a non-native speaker, as long as you don't tell the students. Of course, they all want a native speaker, but they also want a blond haired, blue eyes, pretty young woman with an MBA from a famous university. In reality, they settle for ugly old guys like me if that's all they can get. Then again, as you've probably figured out from this forum, hogwan owners are a dodgy lot to begin with, so you have to be careful with them. As far as recruiters go, don't tell them, they won't ask. You have an American passport and an American BA. That's what they're going to look at. Since there's a risk that they might can you if they find out that you're not originally from the USA, make sure that you get return airfare paid in advance before you come here.


Just so that you know (in case you don't already), there are plenty of people here teaching English without a visa. I don't think that it's as high as some people claim (i.e. that there are more illegals than legals) but I do know that a few of them are not native English speakers. The ones that I've met told employers that they were American or Australian and just wanted to be paid in cash. Whether the hogwan owners suspected something is a matter of debate, but those people DID get work. I'm not suggesting that you do that. I'm just pointing out that if the hogwan owners were willing to hire those people and either didn't realise something was not quite right or didn't care, then you are not likely to have any problems getting work (with an E2 visa).


On another topic, there are some nice Russian clubs/bars in Seoul. If you end up in Seoul, PM me and I'll be happy to show you around.

[Begemot]

Thanks for all the advice guys. So it seems that there's no consensus in terms of visa eligibility, but that getting a job shouldn't be difficult, as long as I don't tell people that I'm a non native.

I wish place of birth wasn't listed on my passport; otherwise there's no way I'd get caught if I lied. Argh. With Moscow listed as my city of birth, I'd have to admit that I wasn't born in the States and just say that I immigrated to the US at a very early age.

Thanks Troglodyte, and thanks for the offer! I'm trying to decide between Taiwan (which several people consider to be a little less strict about the "native" issue) or taking the risk with Korea. If I end up in Seoul, it would be great to meet with other expats in Seoul!

[Illysook]

Many Americans were born elsewhere.

Most people don't put their High School on their resume once they have completed college.

Always tell the truth, but don't always be telling it...and if they ask about your birthplace, fudge a little...tell them a plausible story that contains a little bit of truth...something like "my parents were Mormon missionaries" will only work if you are from Utah.