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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: Calls to boycott Arizona |
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Calls grew across the US today for a boycott of Arizona over its new law giving the police the most draconian powers in the country to deal with illegal immigration.
Democratic members of Congress, religious leaders and leftwing activists urged a boycott of hotels, convention centres and other economic targets in the state. At least one nationwide group has responded by cancelling a convention planned for the autumn. Scores of lorry drivers were reported in the US media to have threatened to stop carrying loads to and from the state.
The calls are being made spontaneously by individuals and an array of groups, but leftwing activists predict they will soon coalesce into a single campaign.
The bill, signed into law on Friday, gives police the right to stop anyone "if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the US". It has polarised opinion across the US, creating a clear divide between Democrats and Republicans.
In a sign of the passions aroused, cleaning crews were called to the state legislative building this morning to clear swastikas daubed on it overnight.
Opponents of the legislation say it will lead to victimisation of anyone who looks or sounds Latino. Supporters say the legislation is needed because the state can no longer cope with an estimated 450,000 illegal immigrants.
Among those calling for a sweeping boycott was the San Francisco city attorney, Dennis Herrera, who urged city departments to look at contracts with Arizona that could be terminated.
Herrera said: "Arizona has charted an ominous legal course that puts extremist politics before public safety, and betrays our most deeply held American values."
He noted that a similar boycott 20 years ago, which included the National Football League's decision to move the Super Bowl from the state, led to Arizona finally dropping its refusal to recognise to Martin Luther King Day.
A Democratic congressman from Arizona, Ra�l Grijalva, is also calling for an economic boycott against what he described as "unjust and racist" legislation that will damage Arizona's prestige and credibility. He was forced to close his office at the weekend after receiving two death threats.
At a rally on Sunday, Grijalva, one of the leading advocates in the US Congress of immigration reform that would offer a route to citizenship for illegal immigrants, called for President Barack Obama to use his executive powers to block the legislation.
Posters were created over the weekend supporting a boycott, including one by the Chicano writer and artist Harry Gamboa headed "Boycott Hate State Arizona".
The sports editor of the leftwing publication the Nation, Dave Zirin, announced he would no longer write about the Arizona Diamondbacks baseball team. "For me, they do not exist. They will continue to not exist in my mind as long as the horribly named 'Support Our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighbourhoods Act' remains law in Arizona," he wrote.
The board of governors of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, based in Washington, ordered its executive to move a convention planned for this autumn from Arizona. The association president, Bernie Wolfsdorf, said: "We cannot in good conscience spend association dollars in a state that dehumanises the people we represent and fight for."
The Rev Al Sharpton, an advocate of African-American rights, said in New York yesterday he would organise "freedom walkers", just as the civil rights movement had organised freedom riders to board segregated buses in the 1960s. "We will go to Arizona when this bill goes into effect and walk the streets with people who refuse to give identification and force arrest," Sharpton said.
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm more inclined to write the state of Arizona a check to show my support. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Most other countries police can and do sometimes stop you if suspected of being an alien. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2010/04/30/20100430pinal-county-officer-shooting.html
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A Pinal County Sheriff's deputy was shot in the stomach Friday after a traffic stop on Interstate 8, according sheriff's officials.
Authorities said the deputy was shot by a suspected undocumented immigrant and other suspects were being sought.
The deputy apparently pulled over a vehicle on Interstate 8 near Arizona 84 at about 4:30 p.m. Friday. When the deputy approached the vehicle, he was shot in the stomach, said Lt. Tamatha Villar, spokesperson for the Pinal County Sheriff's Office |
This might impact the debate. Ever so slightly. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The Arizona law is bad. But remember, Congress dropped the ball on immigration reform, and Bush made only symbolic efforts to patrol the border. With that context, its hard for me to judge Arizona, they're the conduit for illegals, and have about 400,000 estimated illegals for a population of 6.5 million. But I don't support the law, either. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| The Arizona law is bad. But remember, Congress dropped the ball on immigration reform, and Bush made only symbolic efforts to patrol the border. With that context, its hard for me to judge Arizona, they're the conduit for illegals, and have about 400,000 estimated illegals for a population of 6.5 million. But I don't support the law, either. |
If they vigorously enforced their law against hiring illegal immigrants (which requires employers to verify citizenship before hiring people), they'd have no problem. If there's no work, illegals will stop coming sooner or later, and the ones that are there won't meaningfully impact the economy. Because that involves taking action against native born citizens instead of against impoverished Mexicans, though, it's not politically popular.
Heavily patrolling the boarder is a total waste of resources, ultimately. Our boarder is huge, and illegal immigrants are only an economic problem insofar as native born citizens are willing to illegally hire them. That's the choke point where the matter would be best addressed from a cost-effectiveness standpoint. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
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Heavily patrolling the border is a total waste of resources, ultimately. |
I largely agree.
| Fox wrote: |
| Our border is huge, and illegal immigrants are only an economic problem insofar as native born citizens are willing to illegally hire them. |
Its good that you mention this. Americans don't want illegals, but since they're cheap and here anyway, they'll hire them.
In the meantime, the border states suffer far more in proportion to the other states. The state that suffers most is Arizona, which is flush with illegal transit (due to the large land border, among other things). The laws punishing employers of illegals that they would have to enforce are Federal, under ICE's jurisdiction. So they pass an ineffectual law that does bring attention to a critical issue.
Congress needs to pass comprehensive immigration reform. But they didn't when they had the chance. Why? Political calculation and cowardice.
Just give any Latinos present in the United States visas, provided they pass the Inadmissibility Provisions of immigration laws, and make them pay a small fine on top of that (somewhere between $100-$500). Then require that Latinos present on the visas be treated lawfully, i.e., be paid minimum wage. |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I like the law personally. But if I lived there, possibly not.
I just think the lack of enforcement (in other states) shows the lack of care and sets an example. These illegals get bolder and bolder. it needs to stop sometime. Might as well be now. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
| Most other countries police can and do sometimes stop you if suspected of being an alien. |
Just because other countries police forces do this does not necessarily make it good idea. This law will make it much more likely that many crimes will now go unreported in Arizona because illegal immigrants will most likely be afraid to approach the police for fear of being deported. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Open the borders. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:32 am Post subject: |
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The extent of illegal immigration is bad for the country. No question.
Shall we ponder why there is so much illegal immigration? The explosion strangely correlates with 1) NAFTA and 2) the movement of the drug routes from the Caribbean to Mexico.
NAFTA and other "free" trade agreements have been a disaster for Mexico. The war on drugs is a domestic Vietnam in Mexico. America must change her policy towards these issues or the pace of illegal migration will continue without respite.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/14/charles_bowden_murder_city_ciudad_jurez
I respect that Arizona is seeing the degradation of public services (hospitals, schools) and MS-13 etc. To go after the people who are merely responding to incentives is not appropriate. Change the policies.
That the media and east coast elite are hollering NAZI/RACIST etc is gross. I'm happy to see that rule by pejorative isn't working anymore. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
The extent of illegal immigration is bad for the country. No question.
Shall we ponder why there is so much illegal immigration? The explosion strangely correlates with 1) NAFTA and 2) the movement of the drug routes from the Caribbean to Mexico.
NAFTA and other "free" trade agreements have been a disaster for Mexico. The war on drugs is a domestic Vietnam in Mexico. America must change her policy towards these issues or the pace of illegal migration will continue without respite.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/14/charles_bowden_murder_city_ciudad_jurez
I respect that Arizona is seeing the degradation of public services (hospitals, schools) and MS-13 etc. To go after the people who are merely responding to incentives is not appropriate. Change the policies.
That the media and east coast elite are hollering NAZI/RACIST etc is gross. I'm happy to see that rule by pejorative isn't working anymore. |
Mexico is basically a failed state at this point. The government is waging a full on war against drug cartels, and people are routinely massacred on the Texas border. Some of the fighting with Zetas even takes place in Texas and Arizona, and there are reports of Mexican helicopters hovering over the US side of the Rio Grande. Over 22,000 people have been killed in the past few years. This is absolutely not something we want spilling over our borders, and it's especially serious since the US and Mexican federal governments are both in on the drug trade. Border states are correct to take matters into their own hands in this case, since our Federal government is criminal at worst and utterly inept at best.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/Mexican_military_helicopter_seen_over_US_home.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/aug/01/20050801-122047-2623r/ |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| The Arizona law is bad. But remember, Congress dropped the ball on immigration reform, and Bush made only symbolic efforts to patrol the border. With that context, its hard for me to judge Arizona, they're the conduit for illegals, and have about 400,000 estimated illegals for a population of 6.5 million. But I don't support the law, either. |
If they vigorously enforced their law against hiring illegal immigrants (which requires employers to verify citizenship before hiring people), they'd have no problem. If there's no work, illegals will stop coming sooner or later, and the ones that are there won't meaningfully impact the economy. Because that involves taking action against native born citizens instead of against impoverished Mexicans, though, it's not politically popular.
Heavily patrolling the boarder is a total waste of resources, ultimately. Our boarder is huge, and illegal immigrants are only an economic problem insofar as native born citizens are willing to illegally hire them. That's the choke point where the matter would be best addressed from a cost-effectiveness standpoint. |
I can say that in Texas people often hire illegals for side-jobs, because they work hard and often do work at a cheap price. People want to save money, and if there isn't abundant, cheap labor, prices will go up, without a doubt.
That said, I am for legal immigration; not illegal immigration. This idea of the police stopping people for looking as if they are Mexicans not born here is something people are more likely to support if they are white and conservative. Latinos oppose illegal immigration, but many would belligerent towards cops who stop them if they're citizens. I doubt they would welcome that. People say it shouldn't matter, you could show your papers if you're illegal, but very light skinned people, including Latin ones, wouldn't be asked to show papers. How do they define "reasonable" suspicion.
What happened to that wall they were building? By the way, illegal immigration has gone down by say 7%, but anger regarding the issue has risen due to economic hardship in the U.S. People are feeling frustrated and also invaded due to the economics and the idea of feeling culturally overwhelmed by another group. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think AZ laws are great.
Whatever 'boycotting' that might occur, will also have a reverse attraction of people who are interested in controlling illegal immigration.
Let's face it...is there any other country in the world that allows anywhere near as much illegal immigration into their country as the U.S.?
I'm over here in Japan...and REGULARLY...the Japanese authorities look for illegals....on the streets. Pretty much in every country on earth this happens.
If anyone on this board actually travels sometimes...outside of Korea that is....you'll be regularly required to carry around your passport...and guess what, authorities WILL ask to see that you have a valid visa! In fact, many scams in almost every 3rd world country on earth exists around this fact - con men masquerading to be authority figures.
It's kind of ridiculous that the U.S. has laws that strongly discourage the authorities for asking people something that is so common everywhere else in the world. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
I think AZ laws are great.
I'm over here in Japan...and REGULARLY...the Japanese authorities look for illegals....on the streets. Pretty much in every country on earth this happens.
It's kind of ridiculous that the U.S. has laws that strongly discourage the authorities for asking people something that is so common everywhere else in the world. |
In Beijing, I never carry around my passport. I should carry around a copy of it, but frak it, I just don't care. I've never been stopped, the only place where I was stopped was in Shanghai, during the Olympics (yes, the Olympics were actually in Beijing, and when I went there, never stopped).
That being said, in regards to the Arizona law,
| someone else on the internet wrote: |
| The law specifies a two step process: one) the initial contact must be a lawful contact, two) the officer must have reasonable suspicion that the person is an illegal alien. |
Its still broader than it looks on initial reflection, once we define the terms, but this is actually not as expansive a power as I know exists in here in Beijing, and what I suspect is allowed by police in Japan. However, considering America is a multi-ethnic society, and these countries in Asia or not, there will be a lot of citizens hassled over this law in America, that would not otherwise be in Asia.
The lawful contact means something that should prompt police attention, but in actuality anything, like a flickering taillight or the like. The reasonable suspicion here is basically no protection either, since it has more to do with holding people in detention than anything else. It won't really matter for the legal immigrant or citizen stopped without papers, since the main effect of the protection is after they've been hauled in by the police.
Also, note that USC Sect. 1301(e), Federal law, has always required aliens to carry proof of residency on them at all times. But its just rarely enforced. |
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