Korean Job Discussion Forums

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Arthur Dent]

Ah, I see. That's clear.

I realized without having looked at their website that this is what would happen. What I meant, and I suppose I could have been clearer
was what will they do if I refuse either option. I have no intention of going away, until that choice is physically removed from me. Then I will go away permanently.

I'm no expert on Interpol, but I believe they are an agency which has a system of cooperation between nations, where international crimes are concerned. Obviously some crimes may be beyond their purview, but they may still be involved in cooperating with other agencies. But this is all besides the point. It is the immigration services which will - or are - acting as the first line of defense where this issue is concerned. Not surprising. Another agency is not what is required, a more efficient use of existing agencies is what is required. This may be what this policy represents, but I think it is a move in the wrong direction.

Passport fakery is probably one of the reasons this is being instituted, however, there are nations whose agencies have used fake passports for agents in order to enter other nations under fake identities. Israel is a recent famous example. We simply don't know exactly how many countries do this, whatever we suspect. So if nations have participated in the undermining of their own agreed-upon documentation than why should we agree to something which may well be overcome in the future at no significant increase in security to ourselves?

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Arthur Dent]

Right, and of course I don't wish to embolden or abet terrorists. But fingerprinting won't stop this. Those with the intention to commit acts of terrorism are not necessarily already fingerprinted, nor do they always have criminal records. Some are already on intelligence agencies radar - fingerprints, criminal records or no. But I think, and this seems an obvious point to make but I will make it anyway, those groups with ill intent are clever enough to choose people with no record or prints or trail of any kind to follow.

They are unique, but fingerprints can be altered. Plastic surgery has come a long way.

There was a woman who tried to enter Japan (a couple of years ago?) after having altered her prints. She was caught, and I have no idea why she was so desperately trying to enter Japan. She was of Korean descent. Unfortunately, I have no further details which would further illuminate its relevance to this issue. I do recall that the attempt was fairly clumsy. There was no reference to her being a national security threat. The reasons for here attempt seemed to be of a more personal nature.

Anyhow, It would come as no surprise to me that this security measure could be overcome.

My main argument has always been that governments need to extend trust and responsibility to their citizens. If they do not, then how are we to respond to such a lack of trust? I mean this inclusive of extremely friendlier western governments as well. I realize the problems inherent in this with regard to immigration over the last 20 years or more. But if we do not defend it, than what is left really?

As citizens, we also need to take on responsibility. Some have. Many are far too willing to let it be someone else s concern. It is this concern which drives my argument. In a democracy, responsibility is shared, as are risks. It is this very nature which gives it its strength. What is most dismaying to me is that people seem so offhand about surrendering it. Instead, some argue from the position of the left or the right, as if these weren't values we all share.

I'm not interested in performing mischievous tricks here, just to be clear.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Arthur Dent]

The issue is fingerprinting of foreign nationals as a requirement of entry by some nine or more nations as of now. If our government is doing this, then I can hardly complain about other nations making this a requirement. I can avoid visiting these other nations but I can hardly avoid being a citizen of a nation which has chosen to follow suit. Rather, I can avoid it, but only by becoming a citizen of another nation. This is a choice I do not wish to make.

So, it is suffer in silence, and do not visit those other nations - such as France, where I have resided before, and enjoy visiting when I can, and Japan, which I would also like to visit again, or surrender citizenship and set an example.

[Fox]

Arthur, while I find your dedication to your principles commendable, I wonder if you wouldn't be doing your cause a disservice by surrendering citizenship as you describe. Surely you're far more likely to affect change -- and thus bring about a situation that is more just in your eyes -- by remaining a Canadian citizen and involving yourself in the political process in attempt to reverse the policy you disagree with? Abandoning citizenship might demonstrate dedication, but it's unlikely any significant number of people would follow your example, and as a non-citizen it would be much harder for you to influence the political process.

Surely if you're dedicated to this cause sufficiently to renounce citizenship over it, you're dedicated enough to keep your citizenship and fight instead of ceding the political battlefield to your ideological opposition simply because of a potentially temporary setback?

[mises]

[Arthur Dent]

Sound advice, Fox. I do intend to do what I can to fight this when I return. The question will be how. Surrendering citizenship would be a last resort. I hope to find allies of a commendable sort. This could be difficult. In addition, as few on this board seem to be interested in this issue, I can't help but wonder how many people will be willing to fight it. I don't suppose we can consider this board to be a fair cross section of Canadians, though few seem to have responded, and even fewer feel strongly about it, but there are quite a few Canadians in Korea.


Once this kind of system is in place, it becomes extremely difficult to reverse.

[Arthur Dent]

Can't agree with you there mises. I am in Korea, but will be returning to Canada before this policy takes effect here.

The only thing that is insane, is putting up with this.

I respect your opinion, but it isn't the final answer.

[The Happy Warrior]

[bacasper]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Fox]

[Arthur Dent]

A friend pointed out that I posted the wrong link and article. The original was from November 2009 and the one below is the April 21st 2010 article which I meant to post. Probably the confirmed November summit coming up this year had some impact on their decision to move the date forward to August of this year.

Anyway, here is the proper link and article. Apologies.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/04/21/2010042100391.html