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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2981456
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| "Iran is the only country represented in this hall that has been found by the IAEA board of governors to be currently in non-compliance with its nuclear safeguard obligations," Ms. Clinton said in a speech to a Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) review conference at the United Nations. |
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| "the Agency (International Atomic Energy Agency) continues to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material in Iran. |
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/file_download/222/gov2010_10.pdf
2003 won't end. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: |
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http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/12/mccain
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John McCain on the Evil, Barbaric Iranians
By Glenn Greenwald
John McCain has a new article in The New Republic -- which is exactly where it should be -- calling for regime change in Iran. The whole article contains one paragraph after the next of the favorite pastime of America's political and media class: self-righteously condemning other nations for what we ourselves do (at least) as much. Of all McCain's paragraphs, this is probably my favorite (h/t sandbun):
Is it any wonder that this is the same regime that spends its people�s precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all Iranians -- but on funding violent groups of foreign extremists who murder the innocent?
As the American war in Afghanistan enters its ninth full year and our occupation of Iraq its seventh, and as we continue to find all new ways to kill innocent civilians in various countries around the world, and as we continue to transfer billions of dollars every year to Israel and the Egyptian dictatorship -- all while thinking about how to slash Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and thus erode the weak safety net even further, while confronting collapsing domestic infrastructure, rampant unemployment, and massive teacher lay-offs and even grade elimination for American children -- is there any other country you can think of, besides Iran, which "spends its people's precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all [citizens]" but rather on wars and support for foreign groups which kill "the innocent"? And over the last decade, what was the position of John McCain and his party on whether the "people's precious resources" should be spent (a) on "roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all" (see here) or (b) wars that kill the innocent?
And then there's this:
We -- the government and the people of the United States -- need to stand up for the Iranian people. We need to make their goals our goals, their interests our interests, their work our work.
Oh, yes -- John McCain is so deeply concerned about the welfare of The Iranian People. He just adores them. That's why his Siamese twin, Joe Lieberman, advocates that we bomb their country, while McCain merrilly signs songs about doing so. The best way to show how noble and profoundly caring you are about other people is to bomb their country; they love that and it's really, really good for them. One other thing about the Iranians that McCain wants to note:
And is it any wonder that this Iranian regime has been, and will always be, uncompromising in its pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability . . . .
Those murderous monsters! What kind of evil fanatics would want a nuclear weapons capability? In the interview I just did with The Atlantic, I was asked: "If you could correct one mis-impression among Americans that is exacerbated by media, what would it be?" I replied: "our media's refusal to report that we ourselves frequently do exactly that which we like to believe only the Bad, Tyrannical countries do." Thank you to John McCain -- and his like-minded friends at The New Republic -- for providing such a classic illustration.
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Though Obama is a pretty bad president I'm really glad he beat Crazy John. The question is now if Obama will stand strong and avoid all out war and not play the neo-con-Israeli game with the lives of American soldiers and (if they matter) Iranian citizens. I fear Michelle ate his balls a while back and he'll roll over for fear of being called bad names and being a one-termer. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/12/mccain
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John McCain on the Evil, Barbaric Iranians
By Glenn Greenwald
...
As the American war in Afghanistan enters its ninth full year and our occupation of Iraq its seventh, and as we continue to find all new ways to kill innocent civilians in various countries around the world, and as we continue to transfer billions of dollars every year to Israel and the Egyptian dictatorship -- all while thinking about how to slash Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and thus erode the weak safety net even further, while confronting collapsing domestic infrastructure, rampant unemployment, and massive teacher lay-offs and even grade elimination for American children -- is there any other country you can think of, besides Iran, which "spends its people's precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all [citizens]" but rather on wars and support for foreign groups which kill "the innocent"? And over the last decade, what was the position of John McCain and his party on whether the "people's precious resources" should be spent (a) on "roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all" (see here) or (b) wars that kill the innocent? |
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With every passing day, the pretext that was 9/11 becomes more and more obvious.
As Dick Cheney said only days after 9/11:
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| This is a war that may not end in our lifetimes. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Jesus Christ. It really is 2003 all over again:
http://weeklystandard.com/articles/period-consequences
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A Period of Consequences
Our dangerous Iran policy.
BY Jamie Fly and William Kristol
1)
Administrations of both parties have pursued the same failed policy for the last several years.
2)
Even while successive rounds of sanctions against Tehran have been threatened and engagement tried, the Iranian regime has made steady progress towards a nuclear arsenal
3)
Yet if we carried out a targeted campaign against Iran�s nuclear facilities, against sites used to train and equip militants killing American soldiers, and against certain targeted terror-supporting and nuclear-enabling regime elements, the effects are just as likely to be limited.
It�s unclear, for example, that Iran would want to risk broadening the conflict and creating the prospect of regime decapitation. Iran�s rulers have shown that their preeminent concern is maintaining their grip on power. If U.S. military action is narrowly targeted, and declared to be such, why would Iran�s leaders, already under pressure at home, want to escalate the conflict, as even one missile attack on a U.S. facility or ally or a blockade of the Strait would obviously do?
4)
Despite our global commitments and our engagement in two ongoing wars, the U.S. military is fully able to carry out such a mission. Indeed, the success of President Bush�s 2007 surge of forces into Iraq and of President Obama�s sending additional resources to Afghanistan means we are on better footing to deal with Iran�s nuclear program than we were a few years ago.
5)
Obviously, the best alternative in Iran is regime change brought about by domestic opposition.
6)
In a speech to the House of Commons in late 1936, Winston Churchill warned, �The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays is coming to its close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences.�
7)
We, too, are entering such a period. We can act and make the world safer.
8 )
Or we, and the rest of the free world, can choose to be the hapless victim of choices made by our enemies.
9)
For doing nothing in the face of danger, wishful procrastinating, and fearful delay are also choices�dangerous and dishonorable ones. |
I cut it up badly. Read the whole thing if you haven't eaten in the last few hours.
Similarities in 2003:
1) Reference to past failed policies
2) Sanctions don't work
3) It will be a cakewalk
4) The US military can accomplish this easily
5) The Iranian people can't do it without us (greeted with flowers?)
6) Churchill reference (cryptic ww2 appeasement message = Hitler)
7) This period is similar to rise of Nazi Germany
8 blah blah free world blah blah enemies blah blah attack or be a victim blah blah
9) blah blah danger blah blah
We're going to get this war. I can't believe it. These miserable pieces of dung are going to drag limping, broken, broke America into another war. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
We're going to get this war. I can't believe it. These miserable pieces of dung are going to drag limping, broken, broke America into another war. |
I'll wager they won't. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
We're going to get this war. I can't believe it. These miserable pieces of dung are going to drag limping, broken, broke America into another war. |
I'll wager they won't. |
Crazy Ben over in Israel will start it and the Americans will finish it.
Unless you trust him?:
http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2010/06/16/is-benjamin-netanyahu-rational/ |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
We're going to get this war. I can't believe it. These miserable pieces of dung are going to drag limping, broken, broke America into another war. |
I'll wager they won't. |
Crazy Ben over in Israel will start it and the Americans will finish it.
Unless you trust him?:
http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2010/06/16/is-benjamin-netanyahu-rational/ |
You, like he himself, overestimate his power. The Saudis won't open their airspace without implicit American backing, so how do the bombers even get to Saudi Arabia? Through Turkey? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Through Iraq. Or do you think Obama will shoot down Israeli planes? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/09/brezinski_calls_for_obama_to_s.asp
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DB: How aggressive can Obama be in insisting to the Israelis that a military strike might be in America's worst interest?
Brzezinski: We are not exactly impotent little babies. They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?
DB: What if they fly over anyway?
Brzezinski: Well, we have to be serious about denying them that right. That means a denial where you aren't just saying it. If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a Liberty in reverse. |
Do you think that Obama would shoot them down? The hell to pay in America would be severe. 25-50% of Democratic major contributors are American Jews. 25-50%. Real numbers.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/89941-jewish-donors-may-be-chilled-by-israel-policy
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Jewish Democratic donors are believed to make up 25 to 50 percent of the party�s major contributors � those who give more than $25,000 � according to sources familiar with Jewish fundraising.
Some Jewish fundraisers estimate pro-Israel donors give $20 million to $30 million to federal races in an election cycle. |
Plus Obama's campaign finance manager is now the head of AIPAC. And Axlerod, Rham. Sorry Warrior, if Crazy Ben wants war, Obama will stand up and say "HOW HIGH". |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Through Iraq. Or do you think Obama will shoot down Israeli planes? |
Why would they even use planes?
Israel currently has 3 submarines off the coast of Iran. It was 2 and they just sailed a third through, unless they are simply attack subs and not missile subs, it would be a lot easier to fire some tomahawks at the region then get overflight permission.
Plus who said they even have to go that direction, maybe they could move some planes into Central Asia and fly out from there. There must be other options on the table. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Any attack will be sustained over several days if not weeks. There are dozens of targets each requiring many hits. Shooting from subs won't cut it. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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2010:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.fd8407198a07237977aedaea76eb2eaa.9b1&show_article=1
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Iran could fire 'hundreds' of missiles at Europe: Gates
US intelligence has shown Iran could launch an attack against Europe with "scores or hundreds" of missiles
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2002:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2228294.stm
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Iraq 'growing threat to Britain'
Conservative Party leader Iain Duncan Smith says he supports a pre-emptive US offensive against Iraq because he believes Britain is on Saddam Hussein's list of targets for a missile attack.
The Tory leader believes the next generation of Iraqi missiles will be able to reach the whole of Europe and writes that "we can choose to act pre-emptively or we can prevaricate". |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Through Iraq. Or do you think Obama will shoot down Israeli planes? |
Yes. Bama hates Bibi. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| Any attack will be sustained over several days if not weeks. There are dozens of targets each requiring many hits. Shooting from subs won't cut it. |
The attack on Iraq and syria was done in one day.
They probably don't expect to destroy the nuclear program, they probably just intend to send a message.
Yes, we know u are on the nuclear path. We know you have no reason ti be, so back off.
Nuclear weapons are an end game. They have always been.
Its the - don't destroy us through conventional means and we wont take you out at the same time.
The US is the only country to use them, and after listening to ex WW2 soldiers on the TV, it was probably only one of two options for them.
The other option was probably a genocide. |
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