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| Which do you use more when speaking with taxi drivers/restaurant workers/shop clerks? Korean/English/Konglish? |
| Korean |
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60% |
[ 12 ] |
| English |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
| Konglish (a form used for communcation that's a mix of the two) |
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30% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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Message |
buildbyflying
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: To your right. No, your other right.
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 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: Your experience: attitudes and language learning |
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Working on ideas for a sociolinguistics project and thought it would make for a nice day-off conversation:
1. What are your experiences with Korean/English/Konglish use in Korea?
-Which do you use most?
-What are your attitudes towards each?
-Almost left this off... do you have any motivation/desire to learn Korean?
2. 2nd lang. learning is affected by a number of factors. What's your experience with the following as a foreigner in Korea:
-Do you feel politically dominant/equal/subordinate?
-Economically dominant/equal/subordinate?
-technically dominant/equal/subordinate?
-culturally dominant/equal/subordinate?
3. How do you feel you've maintained your culture and language while adapting to Korea?
-Have you emphasized assimilation? Acculturation? Preservation? (Of your native culture and language)
4. How do the following variables relate to you and your social grouping?
-Degree of enclosure - to what degree do you (and your social grouping) share churches, clubs, sporting activities, etc. with the native community?
-Cohesiveness: How much do you live, work and socialize with the native community?
-Attitude: How do attitudes and stereotypes of native and foreign cultures affect all parties (positively, negatively)?
What are your Experiences using English/Korean/Konglish when communicating with...
-taxi drivers
-shop clerks
-restaurant workers?
How long do you plan on living in Korea? |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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dominant? subordinate?
very odd of you, unless you're a Brit doing that, Which is "superior"? thing again.
| Quote: |
Do you feel politically dominant/equal/subordinate?
-Economically dominant/equal/subordinate?
-technically dominant/equal/subordinate?
-culturally dominant/equal/subordinate? |
How about... "different"!! |
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buildbyflying
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: To your right. No, your other right.
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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The terminology is borrowed from Schumann.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/teslal/jschumann/pidginhypoth.pdf
Different is fine... though I'm unclear by what different means.
Dominant and subordinate apply to perceptions... example: Koreans might perceive themselves technologically superior to Javanese people based in technological research and industry. Americans might perceive themselves politically superior to the Chinese. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
What are your experiences with Korean/English/Konglish use in Korea?
-Which do you use most?
-What are your attitudes towards each?
-Almost left this off... do you have any motivation/desire to learn Korean? |
Surprisingly easy to travel and shop with a minimal level of Korean, as Koreans who understand English pop out of the woodwork to help, they getting free English language practice it sometimes seems, at other times they simply use what English they know, quyite accommodating. Easiest of eight foreign countries I've travelled to to get around without speaking the local language (Japan is a huge contrast in this, Thailand outside touristy areas too).
I learned what Korean I needed to know to function in public and have found it easy to make Korean friends who speak English, and haven't put the effort required to develop Korean langaueg skills int he face of the ease without. If someone wants to learn the local language to talk with non-English speaking Koreans, especially the old folks, more power to them! Different strokes for different folks. No pressure either way.
| Quote: |
3. How do you feel you've maintained your culture and language while adapting to Korea?
-Have you emphasized assimilation? Acculturation? Preservation? (Of your native culture and language) |
I spent my first year here learning A LOT about Korean culture, history, food and touristy sites as explained and shown by English speaking adult students, Korean coworkers and English-speaking Koreans in the community. I learned about so many Korean foods, went to several museums and talked about the history and beliefs of locals with locals who could express their thoughts well enough in English, travelled to mountains and beaches and festivals and the like, really was educated in everything except the language per se (though hundreds of words were picked up along the way).
I am not Korean and never will be Korean, am an outsider in their eyes and always will be, amtreated well as a guest here for a limited time, whether that be a year or a decade, and as such sought to appreciate the country and what it has to offer insofar as I wanted to, under no impression that I ought to learn more or less of anything. I am here to work, to teach Korean kids English, and concentrate hard on doing that during work hours without use of the translation method, hence without the specific need to learn the language, though I have spent two years reading the Korea Herald and have a dozen books on Korean culture and history, use topics in the classroom like mudang, picked up along the way.
Korea is different and interesting and have experienced it as such. Some things are impressive, some things silly, some head shaking, some funnier than hell, some worth remembering to use/do myself when I return home.
I eat Korean in restaurants about 90% of the time I eat out, and I cook only Western food at home except for packages of shin ramyeon (no Korean rice in the house, just brown rice, no gimchi in my place ever, though I eat it gladly in Korean restaurants).
Everybody has to decide for themselves how much and in which ways to act like the locals. I've met very FEW who go native or stay expat in the extreme, the former avoiding other foreigners so it's hard for me to differentiate them from the introverts and the latter tend to pull runners before their first contract ends!
I don't watch Korean tv nor listen to Korean music, except some classic music and some folksy guitar 70s stuff. I have hundreds of English novels, continuing my lifelong reading hobby, have lots of English music and English DVD films as well as foreign films of which Korean is just a subset, about thirty or so flicks. I still watch my favorite sport hockey online live and on demand, haven't let the Korean adversion to the sport affect my choices at all. I do enjoy watching soccer with Koreans when their national team is playing, watched more soccer in this country than in my whole life previously.
| Quote: |
4. How do the following variables relate to you and your social grouping?
-Degree of enclosure - to what degree do you (and your social grouping) share churches, clubs, sporting activities, etc. with the native community? |
I play Texas Hold'Em with a couple of Koreans on our Poker Night, does that count? (Why not? young Korean men modern custom!) I play paintball with Koreans (about 70% are Koreans) in a monthly club, does that count? I go to the beach witha Korean coworker regularly to throw a football around and have bbq parties. Do English speaking, so-called "Western" custom following Koreans count as the native community? I play "pocketball" with a Korean rather than the four ball version as we talk about Korean women before and after bar hopping and drinking soju, rum and beer.
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| Cohesiveness: How much do you live, work and socialize with the native community? |
see above; the native community is hard to define unless any Korean counts, in which case, over half of my socializing is with 'the native community'.
| Quote: |
| -Attitude: How do attitudes and stereotypes of native and foreign cultures affect all parties (positively, negatively)? |
if a korean has a negative attitude toward me i can detect it in a nanosecond and simply avoid them - most english speaking locals i've befriended have been great from the get go; my fav bestest korean friend looked shocked when he first saw me walking on the street, laughed and introduced himself, and years later he still is as sincere as always.
stereotypes aren't really much of a factor in relationships once one gets past the first few minutes, except for a few misunderstandings, sterotypes simply is operative for the most superficial kinds of interaction (eg., shopkeeper, taxi driver, etc). don't make too much of it. the people you don't meet are ruled by stereotypes but those you meet get past them before long, even if that means some funny questions
| Quote: |
What are your Experiences using English/Korean/Konglish when communicating with...
-taxi drivers
-shop clerks
-restaurant workers? |
superficial interactions require superficial Korean and Konglish, nothing more; i've made friends on the street but never from interacting with workers working
| Quote: |
| How long do you plan on living in Korea? |
i only planned on one year, then two, then three or four, then six max, now in eighth year and think maybe ten or twelve, or could be just eight. we'll see. |
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Css
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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1.
I use korean pretty much all the time.
Attitude toward each? Hmm..I think korean i cool and like using it. I also think english is cool and like using it at home. I don't like konglish at all.
Yes, i have a lot of desire to learn korean..
2.
Politically? Im not sure i understand that.
Economically superior? To the average korean, yes. To the higher tiers, not even close.
Technically superior? No.
Culturally superior? No.
3.
I don't really think its that easy to lose ones culture so maintaining it hasnt really been an issue for me. I have noticed myself losing my grip on the english language though. Not to any great extent but not being able to bring unusual vocab up has happened enough times for me to remember it.
I don't try to assimilate because im not korean and have no wish to be korean. I try to accept and take note of korean culture and act accordingly but i prefer my position as a foreigner in korea to full assimilation.
4.
I hang out with koreans far more than other foreigners. Which includes living, working, socialising..
Stereotypes always provide a good talking point. ^^
I always talk in korean. but if someone is enthusiastic about their english, ill reply to them in english. but in 95% of cases, they talk to me in korean. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| buildbyflying wrote: |
The terminology is borrowed from Schumann.
Different is fine... though I'm unclear by what different means.
Dominant and subordinate apply to perceptions... example: Koreans might perceive themselves technologically superior to Javanese people based in technological research and industry. Americans might perceive themselves politically superior to the Chinese. |
superior? *sigh* hierarchical thinking is something a German like Schumann shares with the Brits - it just is so... so... unCanadian?  dunno, just strange to me. I don't feel the need to judge, to decide which is better, to choose between. i don't feel the impulse nor have heard people talk about such things where i came from.
politically it is different here, though still a democracy with close votes and open protest nd diasagreement with the political leaders so i feel like Korea is EQUAL=SAME in that respect, soooo unlike China and Thailand.
economically... the chaebols make technological products that my country could learn from, i'm impressed by the knowledge-based industries, the manufacturing and engineering skill compared to my country. but i also observe half the country stuck in farming, protected by trade barriers, which seems to appease the older folks, but the younger generations are left without much they want to do, head to the cities with limited career paths if they haven't been on the school grades/tests track from an early age. i haven't thought whether the economy here is better or worse than back home, though the road infrastructure here is definitely better
culturally, i am not interested in much of the tv and music, but some films i've liked. koreans have such a monoculture, there is a LACK of diversity, but is it a lack? I sometimes think it's just an ABSENCE, which works for their group-identity culture. i'm just here to work and i appreciate what i can and ignore the rest. i don't think about whether the culture where i come from is better or worse, just mine versus theirs, a bit relativistic in this regard, as i'm sure those growing up on wondergirls instead of michael jackson aren't necessarily any better or worse off. i don't like the abuse of women and animals, but that is a generational thing and change is coming, just as back home one saw change happen in that regard, it's a timing thing more than anything. |
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buildbyflying
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: To your right. No, your other right.
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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EDIT: sorry, I missed a couple of posts while posting.
I guess what I'm most interested in are the more superficial interactions.
Things that I'm finding: even if you're ordering a burger in English, chances are the utterances of politeness will be in Korean (as an L1).
Also, various workers understand various terms relating to their business, though speaking those word forms are not as common. Usually only after attempting the speech in L1.
When speaking within fairly equal social settings, how much of each language variation is used? just as a generalization...
As for "dominant/subordinate", I see the reason why this is a valid classification. In the US, particularly Arizona  ... the argument about culture is tricky, if one represents the traditionally dominant culture, then they may not only feel that their culture is superior, but also that the imposing cultures may be touted as superior, leading to a significant clash.
Whereas, if the dominant culture is simply accepted, it's dominance is not generally admitted. "I don't have culture" is the argument of the default culture. |
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Tundra_Creature
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: |
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1. What are your experiences with Korean/English/Konglish use in Korea?
It depended on where I was at the time. Being in Seoul, a lot of people spoke to me in English before I could get 1 Korean word out, so most of the time, I just spoke in English. However, when I was in Incheon, most people spoke to me in Korean, so I tried to make more of an effort to speak Korean, even if I was terrible at it. So I guess you can say I made more of an effort speaking Konglish. They seemed to be happy that I was trying at least.
Even though I'm a very slow learner with languages, I do have a desire to learn Korean, even though I'm back home. I figure, I started learning it back there, mind as well continue. Plus, I find it kind of fun. I think it's also motivated me to try and practice my French more.
2. 2nd lang. learning is affected by a number of factors. What's your experience with the following as a foreigner in Korea:
-Do you feel politically dominant/equal/subordinate? Equal
-Economically dominant/equal/subordinate? Equal
-technically dominant/equal/subordinate? Equal
-culturally dominant/equal/subordinate? Equal
3. How do you feel you've maintained your culture and language while adapting to Korea?
I don't think I stayed long enough to really answer that question but as a whole, I didn't change it and didn't really intend to. I still did spend a lot of time visiting historical sites, learning about the culture, because I just love learning about those kinds of things. Also there are certain things that I do differently than I would back home, but my morals are still the same. I did find myself making a bit more of an effort to dress nicer than usual though.
4. How do the following variables relate to you and your social grouping?
I joined my Uni's Tae Kwon Do Club when I was there, and all instructions were given in Korean (which wasn't a big deal, because in these cases, seeing is easier than talking). For anything really important, they would translate for me because I still barely understood anything else said around me. I eventually became pretty close with my team. They were nice enough to give me a really nicely framed group picture of us all from the tournament we participated in.
I was living with two Koreans and 1 other Canadian at my dorm, which we mostly conversed in English, though I tried to make an effort to at least learn a few words and phrases from my Korean roomates. Three of my for classes I hung around mostly Koreans and outside of school life, I became pretty close friends with another Canadian, two Chinese girls, and a few other Korean girls.
-Attitude: How do attitudes and stereotypes of native and foreign cultures affect all parties (positively, negatively)?
It all depends on the situation, really. Sterotypes do make for interesting conversation topics. But then there were times were it would lead to the whole 'every Korean/Foreigner must be this way' where it'd get a bit silly.
Even though he was a good friend, I knew one guy who did try to make it sound like every woman no matter what age in Montreal was over 200lbs and rode in one of those weird motor chair things. Whilst there a few middle aged women that way, it's far from the majority (last time I checked I wasn't one). Funny enough, when we met again back in Canada, he was raving about how pretty Canadian girls were, so eh... tunes change.
What are your Experiences using English/Korean/Konglish when communicating with...
-taxi drivers I find if I speak Korean and act like I know where I'm going, I may have a slightly better chance of not getting ripped off.
-shop clerks As long as they understand you, then they don't seem to care what language you speak.
-restaurant workers? As long as you liked the food, they don't seem to care what language you speak. Though it seems easier to get what you want if you ask in Korean
How long do you plan on living in Korea?
I only got to stay for a semester for an exchange program whilst studying, but I do intend to go back at one point maybe for a year or longer. We'll see. I had a good time there. |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| buildbyflying wrote: |
The terminology is borrowed from Schumann.
Different is fine... though I'm unclear by what different means.
Dominant and subordinate apply to perceptions... example: Koreans might perceive themselves technologically superior to Javanese people based in technological research and industry. Americans might perceive themselves politically superior to the Chinese. |
superior? *sigh* hierarchical thinking is something a German like Schumann shares with the Brits - it just is so... so... unCanadian? dunno, just strange to me. I don't feel the need to judge, to decide which is better, to choose between. i don't feel the impulse nor have heard people talk about such things where i came from.
politically it is different here, though still a democracy with close votes and open protest nd diasagreement with the political leaders so i feel like Korea is EQUAL=SAME in that respect, soooo unlike China and Thailand.
economically... the chaebols make technological products that my country could learn from, i'm impressed by the knowledge-based industries, the manufacturing and engineering skill compared to my country. but i also observe half the country stuck in farming, protected by trade barriers, which seems to appease the older folks, but the younger generations are left without much they want to do, head to the cities with limited career paths if they haven't been on the school grades/tests track from an early age. i haven't thought whether the economy here is better or worse than back home, though the road infrastructure here is definitely better
culturally, i am not interested in much of the tv and music, but some films i've liked. koreans have such a monoculture, there is a LACK of diversity, but is it a lack? I sometimes think it's just an ABSENCE, which works for their group-identity culture. i'm just here to work and i appreciate what i can and ignore the rest. i don't think about whether the culture where i come from is better or worse, just mine versus theirs, a bit relativistic in this regard, as i'm sure those growing up on wondergirls instead of michael jackson aren't necessarily any better or worse off. i don't like the abuse of women and animals, but that is a generational thing and change is coming, just as back home one saw change happen in that regard, it's a timing thing more than anything. |
You don't feel the need to judge.....and yet you do. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
dominant? subordinate?
very odd of you, unless you're a Brit doing that, Which is "superior"? thing again.
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And when was the last time a Brit did that? I don't think it was on Dave's. |
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