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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 12:08 pm Post subject: Feeling the Hate in New York |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R611drTEHPA
I eagerly await Krugman, Frank Rich, Naomi Klein, Soros, Ed Shultz and the NY Times editorial board to begin shouting about this Matza Ball Party in NYC and the hate therein immediately.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/when_jews_on_the_left_see_americans_on_the_right_as_nazis_20100504/
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When Jews on the Left See Americans on the Right as Nazis
BY DENNIS PRAGER
�There should be absolutely no division when it comes to condemning the use of the Holocaust and Holocaust imagery for domestic political purposes.�
� ADL Statement
It is becoming increasingly common for Jews on the Left to depict Americans on the Right as Nazis and to compare conservative policies to the Holocaust.
Here are a few examples:
Liberal Jewish columnist Frank Rich of The New York Times wrote recently that Tea Partiers had engaged in a �small-scale mimicry of Kristallnacht.� The November 1938 Kristallnacht (�Night of the Broken Glass�), with its murdered Jews, broken and vandalized Jewish businesses and homes, and burned-down synagogues, is widely considered to be the opening act of the Holocaust.
This past September, another Jewish liberal, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), referring to Congress not having passed health care legislation, said on the floor of Congress: �I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven�t voted sooner to end this holocaust in America.� In Grayson�s view, 12 percent of Americans not having health insurance constitutes a �holocaust.�
Another liberal Jewish commentator for The New York Times, Linda Greenhouse, likened the situation of illegal immigrants in Arizona to that of the Jews of Nazi-occupied Denmark. As if being deported to Mexico for illegally entering Arizona is comparable to being sent to Auschwitz for being a Danish Jew.
In the same vein, liberal Jewish Congressman Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) said that the Arizona anti-immigration law is �akin to Nazi Germany.�
The liberal Jewish columnist of the Boston Globe, Ellen Goodman, now retired, wrote: �Let�s just say that global warming deniers are now on a par with Holocaust deniers.� If Holocaust-deniers are on the same moral and truth-telling level as global warming deniers, then denying the Holocaust is neither evil nor a lie.
Another Jew on the Left, George Soros, said at the Davos conference in 2007, �America needs to follow the policies it has introduced in Germany. We have to go through a certain de-Nazification process.� As Martin Peretz wrote at the time in The New Republic: �He [Soros] believes that the United States is now a Nazi country. Why else would we have to go through a �certain de-Nazification process�? I defy anybody to interpret the remark differently.�
And referring to the new Arizona anti-illegal immigration law, Seth Meyers of �Saturday Night Live� asked, �Could we all agree that there�s nothing more Nazi than saying, �Show me your papers?� � As it happens, there are quite a few things that are �more Nazi� than being asked in Arizona in 2010 to show one�s identification. How about having your children gassed? Or watching your naked parents forced to dig their graves, shot and buried alive? Or having every single one of your friends and relatives murdered? Or being tortured to death in one of the Nazi concentration camps? The equation of being asked for one�s ID to prove one is in America legally with what the Nazis did to the Jews mocks what the Nazis did to the Jews.
And it is a non sequitur to counter that, for example, some posters at Tea Parties compared President Obama to Hitler (posters that are as morally reprehensible as they are self-destructive). First, my examples were all prominent liberals making the Nazi-conservative equation. There are virtually no equivalently prominent conservative examples. What equally prominent conservative columnists described liberals as Nazis the way Frank Rich and Linda Greenhouse of The New York Times described conservatives? What Republican congressmen have cheapened the �Holocaust� the way Anthony Weiner and Alan Grayson have?
Second, when comparisons of those on the Left to Hitler are made, as in the case of Fox News commentator Glenn Beck, they are always to Hitler�s economic policies � to National Socialism. This is not a defense of these ill-advised comparisons. But if truth matters, it is important to point out that, unlike the liberal comparisons of conservatives to Nazi racism and violence, the conservative comparisons are to Hitler�s takeover of the German economy and state.
So, then, why do Jews on the Left belittle the Holocaust by often calling fellow Americans who are conservative �Nazis� and comparing their policies to the Holocaust?
The answers lie in the rhetoric of the Left and in Jews� fears.
Leftist rhetoric routinely depicts opponents of the Left as bad human beings. Opponents of race-based affirmative action are racists. Opponents of same-sex marriage are homophobes. Opponents of illegal immigration are xenophobes, racists and engaged in Nazism (that is the word Cardinal Roger Mahoney used to describe Arizona�s anti-illegal immigration law). And so on.
But there is an additional explanation for why liberal and Leftist Jews use �Nazi� and �Holocaust� rhetoric to depict conservatives.
Jews, Right or Left, have been seared by the Holocaust. And most, if not all, Jews believe a Holocaust could happen again � hardly an idiosyncratic belief given Iranian dictator Mahmoud Ahmadinejad�s declared aim of annihilating the Jewish state.
Where liberal and conservative Jews differ is where each group thinks the greatest danger to the Jews lies. Jews on the Left are certain that the greatest threats to Jews come from the Right. Conservative and centrist Jews believe that dangers to the Jews can come from the Left, from the Right, from Islam, from a renewal of Christian anti-Semitism, indeed from anywhere, but that at this moment the world�s Left is far more an enemy of the Jewish people than the world�s, not to mention America�s, Right.
Finally, what Jews who compare conservatives to Nazis do is provide moral cover for non-Jews to do the same. If Frank Rich writes that the Tea Parties had a Kristallnacht, why should a non-Jew who hates conservatives not say the same thing?
But the consequence is that more and more people will come to think of the Night of Broken Glass in 1938 as no worse than a Tea Party rally and deportations of Jews to Auschwitz as no worse than deporting an illegal immigrant back to his home in Mexico.
If the ADL is serious about condemning misuse of the Holocaust, it should send public letters to Jews who do it. And the Jews who do it happen to all be on the Left.
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I am increasingly aware of this and outraged by it. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| When liberal jews start dressing in robes and having lynchings I will be outraged. Why is it so outrageous for jews to mention the holucaust and not outrageous when African -americans mention slavery. Its rhetoric, misuse of language, but what hate? Its a political argument,its rough. You want hate in NYC, go to a Yankee , Red Sox game. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I like you Mises. You're a pretty cool cat. But man, you're slipping.
"Minority complains about majority using hyperbole" isn't exactly the breaking news of the century.
Ignore these people. They've all become politically fanatical and therefore have tied their emotional happiness to policy. Let the squirm and cry, maybe they'll learn that abandoning reason for emotional sensations of warm 'n fuzzies is a bad idea.
Maybe not. Who cares? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| When liberal jews start dressing in robes and having lynchings I will be outraged. Why is it so outrageous for jews to mention the holucaust and not outrageous when African -americans mention slavery. Its rhetoric, misuse of language, but what hate? Its a political argument,its rough. You want hate in NYC, go to a Yankee , Red Sox game. |
Blacks can use the legacy of slavery when appropriate. Jews can use the legacy of the holocaust when appropriate. Ukrainians can use the legacy of the Soviet massacre when appropriate.
The full on assault by liberal Jews in the American media against "flyover" dissatisfaction with government is wildly inappropriate. I have noticed, ever since Ben Stein slurred Ron Paul with "anti semite" for saying America occupies Iraq, that the use and abuse of pejorative is largely a cornered market. I (inappropriately, of course) noticed something. I want to see Ed Shultz treat the Jews in the youtube video above with the same belligerent contempt and hatred that he does middle America every single night on his MSNBC show. Same goes for Krugman, Namoi Klien and her husband Avi Lewis, Frank Rich, Linda Greenhouse, Ellen Goodman and the rest. Especially Frank Rich. That guy is aweful. I've noticed something, and I am not particularly observant. If I noticed it, many hundreds of thousands others are noticing it. If Soros wants to cry about ethnocentrism he can take a look around his social circle.
How's this for pushing something too far. Matt Taibbi has to be defended against charges of anti-semitism for being hard on poor Goldman.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126310251
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Is Criticism Of Goldman Really Anti-Semitism?
Is it legitimate to think of Goldman as a Jewish firm? Messrs. Goldman and Sachs, who founded the firm in the nineteenth century, were Jewish, as have been most of its partners since then, almost all of its leaders, and its current CEO (Lloyd Blankfein). It was founded because Jews were excluded from other firms. At this point Goldman is a publicly traded stock that anybody may own, and probably most of its employees are not Jewish. (Just as Jews are more than welcome at "gentile" firms like Morgan Stanley).
Is it legitimate to talk about Goldman as a Jewish firm? That's a different question. Many American Jews think "Jewish" when they hear the words "Goldman" and "Sachs," but still cringe whenever they hear the connection made in public, especially by non-Jews. Certainly any explicit suggestion that Goldman's alleged misbehavior and its Jewishness are related in any way is anti-Semitic.
But what about comments about Goldman Sachs that draw on the classic stereotype about Jews and money, without making any explicit connection to it being a Jewish firm? That depends on which stereotype you mean. There is the stereotype that Jews thrive and tend to predominate on Wall Street and in the financial professions generally. This is true, but so what? There is no mystery or conspiracy involved. Jews in Europe were excluded from many occupations for centuries. They couldn't own land and be farmers. Here in the United States they couldn't climb the executive ladder at big corporations. They were not welcome at investment banks run by Protestants. So they founded their own.
The stereotype that Jews gravitate toward, and often do well in, finance is so innocent that, ironically, bringing it up is suspicious. What does it have to do with anything?
Rush Limbaugh brought it up the other day. He said on his radio show that President Obama may be appealing to anti-Semitism with his recent populist criticism of banks and bankers. "There are a lot of people," Limbaugh said, "when you say banker, people think Jewish." He didn't mention Goldman Sachs. Abe Foxman, longtime head of the B'nai Brith Anti-Defamation League, declared that Limbaugh's remark was "offensive and inappropriate" and "borderline anti-Semitic." Limbaugh and his defenders protest that Limbaugh clearly was referring to other people, "people who have--what's the best way to say--a little prejudice about them," and not endorsing such views himself. And the transcript bears him out.
By Foxman's standard, even to mention that many bankers are Jewish is anti-Semitic (even though it's true), and attributing this view to others (while professing to be worried about it) is no excuse This may be over-the top. We live in a culture of umbrage, in which everybody seems to be taking offense at something somebody else says. Foxman is one of the nation's foremost umbragists.
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Then there is this oft-quoted passage at the beginning of a lengthy rant against Goldman Sachs by Matt Taibbi last July in Rolling Stone: "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money." This sentence, many have charged, goes beyond stereotypes about Jews and money, touches other classic anti-Semitic themes about Jews as foreign or inhuman elements poisoning humanity and society, and--to some critics-- even seems to reference the notorious "blood libel" that Jews use the blood of Christian babies to make matzoh.
Taibbi claims to have been utterly blindsided by accusations that his article was anti-Semitic. He says he finds the idea "ludicrous." He denies any relation between his words and classic anti-Semitic stereotypes. His critics find this impossible to believe. Could such a sophisticated writer (the article skewers Goldman with great skill and style) actually not know about the stereotypes and ancient lies that this passage echoes, and could he actually be surprised that there would be people calling his article, fairly or otherwise, anti-semitic? It may be possible to call Goldman Sachs a bloodsucker without being an anti-Semite. But is it possible to call Goldman Sachs a bloodsucker and then be surprised when you're called an anti-Semite?
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So Goldman, a Jewish firm, with Paulson (a Jewish hedge fund manager) and Magnatar Capital (started and run by Alec Litowitz, David Snyderman) and with the assistance of Greenspan and Bernanke made billions blowing up the global financial system causing trillions in (socialized) losses. The architects of this were Larry Summers, Robert Rubin (Rubin is a co-chairman at the CFR).
And Matt Taibbi is accused of anti-semitism? Taibbi has balls, but nobody has balls big enough to actually speak of the role Jews played in blowing up the American economy. I am completely fine with not mentioning it and pretending that WASP men did it but feel it fair game after the last 9 months of hysterical shouting by Jewish people in the American media. Obama just appointed 3 more Jewish people to the Federal Reserve: Janet Yellen, Sarah Raskin and Peter Diamond. Calling Matt Taibbi an anti-semite does far more harm to the Jews than good.
It is time for the anti-semite card to die. Jews are the new WASPs. Time to learn how to take criticism without crying and respect differences in opinion without shouts of racist/nazi/holocaust etc. If you dislike Arizona's policy you should try to persuade them that it is wrong. Calling them Nazi's will only further pollute the political culture.
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/05/kagan-appointment-shows-jews-are-the-new-wasps.html
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| Ignore these people. They've all become politically fanatical and therefore have tied their emotional happiness to policy. Let the squirm and cry, maybe they'll learn that abandoning reason for emotional sensations of warm 'n fuzzies is a bad idea. |
The political atmosphere is toxic and individuals with power in media etc must become more civilized, measured and polite in their dealings with the peasants. There is no reason for people with huge audiences and power to spend their days shouting names at the numerical majority for merely having an opinion. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
The political atmosphere is toxic and individuals with power in media etc must become more civilized, measured and polite in their dealings with the peasants. There is no reason for people with huge audiences and power to spend their days shouting names at the numerical majority for merely having an opinion. |
Couldn't agree with you more, pal, but it seems screeching and flinging feces is a noble American tradition in politics. Gotta let it roll down your back and keep your eye on the stuff that matters: Corn dogs. Yum! |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, you're probably right. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Seems some on here are implying that jews blew up the glaobal economy for religous reasons, of to aid their eventual take over of the world. I doubt much of that reasoning. They also poison wells and sacrifice christian babies . Wall STreet is overwhelmingly protestant.
I do agree with Mise on one thing, the use of the word nazi,fascist to describe those that you disagree with politically is overdone and only serves to trivialize nazi crimes. I loathed George Bush junior and loathed his policies , but he was not a nazi. Also describing every event that you are displeased with as a holacaust is nauseating. Also the rights seeing red when it is only faintly pink. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
Seems some on here are implying that jews blew up the glaobal economy for religous reasons, of to aid their eventual take over of the world. I doubt much of that reasoning. They also poison wells and sacrifice christian babies . Wall STreet is overwhelmingly protestant.
I do agree with Mise on one thing, the use of the word nazi,fascist to describe those that you disagree with politically is overdone and only serves to trivialize nazi crimes. I loathed George Bush junior and loathed his policies , but he was not a nazi. Also describing every event that you are displeased with as a holacaust is nauseating. Also the rights seeing red when it is only faintly pink. |
STFU 2008 Economic Holocaust denier!
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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To channel William Safire for the day, referring to a holocaust is not the same as invoking the Holocaust. It's puzzling that a Jew would use the comparison as there have been arguments that the term should only be used for the Nazi genocide, but here talking about a holocaust generally is perhaps hyperbole but isn't necessarily a Nazi comparison.
The examples given are sporadic and over a good period of time, and put together don't seem to suggest any concerted effort or campaign, or evidence of a double standard. We all Godwin threads with these exaggerated comparisons. They aren't in good taste, but they're a little different in degree from painting a Hitlerstache on an Obama portrait and explicitly comparing him to Der Fuhrer. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York |
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| mises wrote: |
I am increasingly aware of this and outraged by it. |
I agree with .38 special. Its noise, perhaps worth your scorn, but not your outrage.
But, that being said, let he without political pet peeves cast the first stone. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York |
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| This past September, another Jewish liberal, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), referring to Congress not having passed health care legislation, said on the floor of Congress: �I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven�t voted sooner to end this holocaust in America.� In Grayson�s view, 12 percent of Americans not having health insurance constitutes a �holocaust.� |
The inclusion of this, especially so early in the article, makes it hard to take this writer seriously. Holocaust is simply a word in the English language, and it's use does not automatically invoke the Holocaust. And no, Grayson wasn't simply talking about Americans not having insurance, he was talking about Americans dying from lack of insurance by the thousands.
Given the rest of the article seems to be the writer whining about Jews engaging in metaphors which he finds disagreeable, I don't really have much else to say about it. The Holocaust was a big event in Jewish history, so it's hardly surprising that Jews would use it as a metaphorical reference with regards to topics they have conviction about. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York |
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| Fox wrote: |
Given the rest of the article seems to be the writer whining about Jews engaging in metaphors which he finds disagreeable, I don't really have much else to say about it. The Holocaust was a big event in Jewish history, so it's hardly surprising that Jews would use it as a metaphorical reference with regards to topics they have conviction about. |
If everything and everybody is a nazi then nothing is. The bile spat around with complete disregard for sense renders actual policy discussion impossible.
The one bright spot is that it doesn't seem to be working anymore. I suspect this will be met with ever more shrill shouts.
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I agree with .38 special. Its noise, perhaps worth your scorn, but not your outrage.
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I disagree. I seldom agree with the Sarah Palin end of the Tea Party but the way that they have been depicted is completely inappropriate. The response to the Arizona law has been hysterical. This is no way to manage a public discussion.
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Seems some on here are implying that jews blew up the glaobal economy for religous reasons, of to aid their eventual take over of the world. I doubt much of that reasoning. They also poison wells and sacrifice christian babies .
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Yeah. Outstanding. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York |
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| mises wrote: |
| If everything and everybody is a nazi then nothing is. The bile spat around with complete disregard for sense renders actual policy discussion impossible. |
Actual policy discussion is impossible right now, but not because of occasional Nazi metaphors, which are ultimately trivial.
| mises wrote: |
| The one bright spot is that it doesn't seem to be working anymore. |
Which is why it's pointless to whine about it like the author of this article is. If a given group over-uses a type of rhetoric, that rhetoric will lose its impact. If this is a problem, it's a self-correcting one. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York |
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| Fox wrote: |
| If a given group over-uses a type of rhetoric, that rhetoric will lose its impact. If this is a problem, it's a self-correcting one. |
True... unless you're a Jew who wants to keep the significance of the Holocaust alive in discourse. Then you're boned.  |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Feeling the Hate in New York |
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| .38 Special wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| If a given group over-uses a type of rhetoric, that rhetoric will lose its impact. If this is a problem, it's a self-correcting one. |
True... unless you're a Jew who wants to keep the significance of the Holocaust alive in discourse. Then you're boned. |
The Holocaust has no significance in discourse. Using it metaphorically for anything less than the mass slaughter of innocents just results in people like the writer of this article using said metaphor to distract from your actual point for partisan gain, and any event genuinely equal to the Holocaust needs no comparison, as it's sufficiently powerful and emotive in its own right. As such, there's nothing really to keep alive.
In fact, the best reason to avoid using Holocaust metaphors is it simply ensures your ideological opponents will attempt to use your metaphor as a distraction from your actual point, which is exactly what Mr. Prager is doing her in this article, a small gambit in his overall culture war. |
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