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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
Unless we're traveling to Africa or Quebec, it's not that useful. outside of France.
French's time is passing |
French in Africa is spoken in countries with a total population of 335 million, which will reach between 684 million and 719 million by 2050. All French needs is for Africa to somewhat get its act together in the next 40 years and it'll do just fine.
http://www.prb.org/pdf09/09wpds_eng.pdf |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Blame the American education system which fails to teach foreign languages to its kids. Come on its French people, not Sanskrit. Anyone with a vague knowledge of language (ahem- teacher?) and such shouldn't have too much of a problem. |
I'm glad somebody made this point. Looking at the title I thought the exhibition was just in Korean or only in Korean and Japanese/Chinese, but not being able to glean some information from French is ridiculous.
Taking a look at the Pablo Picasso article on Wikipedia the titles are:
P�riode bleu, influences africaines, cubisme, Les Ballets russes, surr�alisme, guernica et pacifisme, engagement au parti communiste, p�riode de Vallauris, �uvres, �criture et livres illustr�s, sa cote, anecdotes, les mus�es Picasso, enfants.
About three quarters of that is easy for an English speaker.
By the way, it's easily possible that the French side arranged to have the exhibition on the condition that an English translation wouldn't be present. I have no proof for that but it wouldn't surprise me. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Signs in general would not enhance the experience. They distract from the emotional reaction that the art is supposed to cause. There is a time and place for getting the back story in regards to the artist/piece, but that is post viewing. Let your reaction be the personal one you have, not the one suggested by some self-inflated Art History professor.
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I like to know the back story. Sometimes you can delve deeper into a piece if you know what inspired it. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Blame the American education system which fails to teach foreign languages to its kids. Come on its French people, not Sanskrit. Anyone with a vague knowledge of language (ahem- teacher?) and such shouldn't have too much of a problem. |
I'm glad somebody made this point. Looking at the title I thought the exhibition was just in Korean or only in Korean and Japanese/Chinese, but not being able to glean some information from French is ridiculous.
Taking a look at the Pablo Picasso article on Wikipedia the titles are:
P�riode bleu, influences africaines, cubisme, Les Ballets russes, surr�alisme, guernica et pacifisme, engagement au parti communiste, p�riode de Vallauris, �uvres, �criture et livres illustr�s, sa cote, anecdotes, les mus�es Picasso, enfants.
About three quarters of that is easy for an English speaker.
By the way, it's easily possible that the French side arranged to have the exhibition on the condition that an English translation wouldn't be present. I have no proof for that but it wouldn't surprise me. |
Many Americans learn Spanish or Italian. I wanted to learn French, but my parents made me learn Spanish because it was more practical in the Americas. They were right. I would still choose French if I could go back, but my Spanish has helped me a lot.
I'll probably learn French at a later date. It's on my list of things to learn, along with cartwheels and how to make the perfect marzipan. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
My fiance lived in Morocco for a while, after he finished university, and he was able to get by with French most of the time.
As for Mandarin, it was 4th because, while not completely necessary, it's pretty prevalent in Asia. |
French is probably more useful in North Africa than standard Arabic. Nearly every educated person in Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia is, if not fluent, extremely proficient at French. And while they obviously know Arabic too, their local dialects are very different from Modern Standard Arabic.
Downplaying the significance of French is a very North American-centric view.
In regards to Mandarian, besides it being prevalent in Asia, knowing Chinese characters will obviously help you in non-Mandarian speaking places too (i.e. Japan and Hong Kong). |
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goniff
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Rodin ... wasn't he French? And the exhibition is in Korea. Have you always been spoonfed all your life? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
Again, UrbanMyth, stop ignoring the REAL question about English in Korea. Why is the Korean government spending so much money on English education if English is not important to Koreans? Why won't you admit that English matters to Koreans for their future in the world community. Learning English puts food on their tables and money in their bank accounts just as teaching it does for you. In order for young Koreans to apply what they've learned in a real world setting they need to see it in real world settings, LIKE ART MUSEUMS. No one said to erase Korean words at the museum, just INCLUDE English. Is that so hard to digest?
All some people have been asking is to include English words in an art exhibition at an international art museum. Why do you view that in such a negative light? Can you please explain why that is so wrong? |
Stop dragging in red herrings. No one is talking about Koreans complaining the signs aren't in English. The complaints are coming from native English speakers. And who goes to a museum to learn English?
And as has already been explained above most English speakers should be able to understand much if not most of the French.
Once again most museums here do include English words. ONE exhibition that does not isn't a big deal. Nor for that matter would ONE exhibition significantly increase Koreans' English knowledge as you are attempting to claim. |
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DeMayonnaise
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I read the first page of this and stopped.
Typical thread on Daves.
"WAAAAAAAA I live in Korea and something isn't in English...WAAAAA"
Who cares what the hell the thing says. It's art. You look at it, think about it, talk about it with who you are with. You don't need to read the titles in English. Just be glad that Seoul was able to geat the works of a great artist to Korea (though I'll probably skip it, since it's probably nowhere near as good as the Rodin museum in Paris...) |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to believe this thread is still alive.
I think it's fair to point out that if Korea is as serious about globalization and promoting English usage the museum's having signs in English would have added to that effort.
But come on. It's one lousy exhibition. Besides, do you think if there were information in English you could have actually read it with all the Koreans pushing and shoving you out of the way? |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| DeMayonnaise wrote: |
I read the first page of this and stopped.
Typical thread on Daves.
"WAAAAAAAA I live in Korea and something isn't in English...WAAAAA"
Who cares what the hell the thing says. It's art. You look at it, think about it, talk about it with who you are with. You don't need to read the titles in English. Just be glad that Seoul was able to geat the works of a great artist to Korea (though I'll probably skip it, since it's probably nowhere near as good as the Rodin museum in Paris...) |
I would agree with this but since there are huge advertisements for it in The Korean Times everyday, they seem to want English speakers to attend. If they want English speakers to attend they could make some accommodations for them. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
Again, UrbanMyth, stop ignoring the REAL question about English in Korea. Why is the Korean government spending so much money on English education if English is not important to Koreans? Why won't you admit that English matters to Koreans for their future in the world community. Learning English puts food on their tables and money in their bank accounts just as teaching it does for you. In order for young Koreans to apply what they've learned in a real world setting they need to see it in real world settings, LIKE ART MUSEUMS. No one said to erase Korean words at the museum, just INCLUDE English. Is that so hard to digest?
All some people have been asking is to include English words in an art exhibition at an international art museum. Why do you view that in such a negative light? Can you please explain why that is so wrong? |
Stop dragging in red herrings. No one is talking about Koreans complaining the signs aren't in English. The complaints are coming from native English speakers. And who goes to a museum to learn English?
And as has already been explained above most English speakers should be able to understand much if not most of the French.
Once again most museums here do include English words. ONE exhibition that does not isn't a big deal. Nor for that matter would ONE exhibition significantly increase Koreans' English knowledge as you are attempting to claim. |
You are in the "English language industry" (ESL) and you oppose English in public? Illogical? Most would say yes. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| oskinny1 wrote: |
| DeMayonnaise wrote: |
I read the first page of this and stopped.
Typical thread on Daves.
"WAAAAAAAA I live in Korea and something isn't in English...WAAAAA"
Who cares what the hell the thing says. It's art. You look at it, think about it, talk about it with who you are with. You don't need to read the titles in English. Just be glad that Seoul was able to geat the works of a great artist to Korea (though I'll probably skip it, since it's probably nowhere near as good as the Rodin museum in Paris...) |
I would agree with this but since there are huge advertisements for it in The Korean Times everyday, they seem to want English speakers to attend. If they want English speakers to attend they could make some accommodations for them. |
Very true. Check out the English language website- http://www.rodinseoul.com/ |
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orosee
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Location: Hannam-dong, Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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This thread should have started and ended this way:
<description of the exhibitions>
<warning: the display tags are in Korean and French only>
<advice: prepare yourself or bring your own guide book to Rodin>
<comments: Thanks!>
All said and done on page one.
I recommend that Dave registers the following URL: www.waaaaa.co.kr |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
Again, UrbanMyth, stop ignoring the REAL question about English in Korea. Why is the Korean government spending so much money on English education if English is not important to Koreans? Why won't you admit that English matters to Koreans for their future in the world community. Learning English puts food on their tables and money in their bank accounts just as teaching it does for you. In order for young Koreans to apply what they've learned in a real world setting they need to see it in real world settings, LIKE ART MUSEUMS. No one said to erase Korean words at the museum, just INCLUDE English. Is that so hard to digest?
All some people have been asking is to include English words in an art exhibition at an international art museum. Why do you view that in such a negative light? Can you please explain why that is so wrong? |
Stop dragging in red herrings. No one is talking about Koreans complaining the signs aren't in English. The complaints are coming from native English speakers. And who goes to a museum to learn English?
And as has already been explained above most English speakers should be able to understand much if not most of the French.
Once again most museums here do include English words. ONE exhibition that does not isn't a big deal. Nor for that matter would ONE exhibition significantly increase Koreans' English knowledge as you are attempting to claim. |
You are in the "English language industry" (ESL) and you oppose English in public? Illogical? Most would say yes. |
It would be illogical had I done anything like that. As it stands it's just another fabrication by you which is no surprise. Either show us all where I said that English in public should not be shown (which is what opposing English in public means) or admit that you were fibbing/trolling. |
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Anon
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| air76 wrote: |
The whole "they should have it in Chinese if anything" argument is bogus...English IS the international language and it will be for quite some time. Furthermore, both of those two art museums have been pushing to get a more international audience, so therefore it would make sense to have more information in the international language, which is English whether you like it or not. |
No.
English is an international language. The other being French.
That's why it would have made sense to use Korean and French descriptions, for Rodin was French and French is an international language.
I wouldn't see the point in using English in this exhibition - and its use in other events is also arguable. |
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