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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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The way you described it (and how it has sounded to me in the BBC coverage, as well), it sounds as though legislation isn't voted for based upon its merits but instead by whose party you belong to 
The Founding Fathers of American politics warned that parties would corrupt the Republic. I reckon plying the welfare of the people against loyalties to arbitrary associations will destroy the legitimacy of any government type in any place. 
But glad to hear you've got something bearable to work with. |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| .38 Special wrote: |
The way you described it (and how it has sounded to me in the BBC coverage, as well), it sounds as though legislation isn't voted for based upon its merits but instead by whose party you belong to
The Founding Fathers of American politics warned that parties would corrupt the Republic. I reckon plying the welfare of the people against loyalties to arbitrary associations will destroy the legitimacy of any government type in any place.
But glad to hear you've got something bearable to work with. |
You pretty much nailed British Politics there my friend. It's a power game and a popularity contest. Generally theyre a self-serving, lying bunch of tw@ts. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| rusty1983 wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
The way you described it (and how it has sounded to me in the BBC coverage, as well), it sounds as though legislation isn't voted for based upon its merits but instead by whose party you belong to
The Founding Fathers of American politics warned that parties would corrupt the Republic. I reckon plying the welfare of the people against loyalties to arbitrary associations will destroy the legitimacy of any government type in any place.
But glad to hear you've got something bearable to work with. |
You pretty much nailed British Politics there my friend. It's a power game and a popularity contest. Generally theyre a self-serving, lying bunch of tw@ts. |
... Wanna trade  |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| .38 Special wrote: |
| rusty1983 wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
The way you described it (and how it has sounded to me in the BBC coverage, as well), it sounds as though legislation isn't voted for based upon its merits but instead by whose party you belong to
The Founding Fathers of American politics warned that parties would corrupt the Republic. I reckon plying the welfare of the people against loyalties to arbitrary associations will destroy the legitimacy of any government type in any place.
But glad to hear you've got something bearable to work with. |
You pretty much nailed British Politics there my friend. It's a power game and a popularity contest. Generally theyre a self-serving, lying bunch of tw@ts. |
... Wanna trade |
I suppose politicians lying and being corrupt isnt a British phenomenon |
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Jimskins
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion its a good result for everybody apart from die-hard Conservatives:
1.Labour gets to go away and sort themselves out and get some fresh leadership (probably D. Milliband if the National Executive have got any sense).
2.Liberal supporters finally see their votes count for something and the party gets some limited power. Also there is a small chance they could get some electoral reform (PR etc) in their favour and make a lasting impact on their influence (although the Conservatives would traditionally be the last to agree to it because it doesn't favour them at all).
3.For people (like me) who would like to see what Cameron can do but don't completely trust him / are sickened by his gilt-edged background, he's in, but with limited power.
Britain doesn't like coalition governments, but the current situation has the potential to a do a lot of good for British politics and the country as a whole. |
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Depths of My Soul
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: In The Sun
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Jimskins wrote: |
Britain doesn't like coalition governments, but the current situation has the potential to a do a lot of good for British politics and the country as a whole. |
It's about time we joined 'real Europe'. Hopefully the next step will be to join the Euro zone (the idea of holding onto the � is just for old fogies and racists, LOL).
Is anyone else already getting fed up of all the lib and lab 'protesters' who have coined the name: Con-Dem (n) *groans*
It's time to move on and give the new government a chance. Nu-Labour did nothing but **** things up anyway with their mostly Conservative policies. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| It's about time we joined 'real Europe'. Hopefully the next step will be to join the Euro zone (the idea of holding onto the � is just for old fogies and racists, LOL). |
A belief in national economic independence and democratic sovereingnty is, quelle suprise, racist! |
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Depths of My Soul
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Location: In The Sun
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's about time we joined 'real Europe'. Hopefully the next step will be to join the Euro zone (the idea of holding onto the � is just for old fogies and racists, LOL). |
A belief in national economic independence and democratic sovereingnty is, quelle suprise, racist! |
Ass-licking the USA (and pandering to the wills and wants of Israel) isn't independence in my book. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Depths of My Soul wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's about time we joined 'real Europe'. Hopefully the next step will be to join the Euro zone (the idea of holding onto the � is just for old fogies and racists, LOL). |
A belief in national economic independence and democratic sovereingnty is, quelle suprise, racist! |
Ass-licking the USA (and pandering to the wills and wants of Israel) isn't independence in my book. |
No it isn't, but then again that is not what I, or many of my fellow racist, anti-EU federalist proponents advocate. National economic and political independence means being free of both American and European domination, and would obviously mean taking a stance in the national interest. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Join the Euro? What, just in time to watch it fall apart?
Anyways, here's the truth about the legacy of Labour:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=azCbhNNMdg98&pos=9
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�There�s No Money Left,� U.K. Minister Learns
May 17 (Bloomberg) -- Arriving for work at the U.K. Treasury last week, the incoming chief secretary, David Laws, found a note from his predecessor, Liam Byrne, offering advice on the job.
�Dear Chief Secretary, I�m afraid to tell you there�s no money left,� Laws cited it as saying.
�Which was honest,� Laws, whose position is the No. 2 in the Treasury after the chancellor of the exchequer, told a press conference in London today. �But slightly less than I was expecting.�
The note underscores the task facing Britain�s Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition as it seeks to reconcile demand for improved health and education services with promises to reduce the largest budget deficit since World War II.
It was also in the tradition of Reginald Maudling, Conservative chancellor of the exchequer from 1962 to 1964. Leaving his residence after election defeat, he was reported byJames Callaghan, his successor, to have remarked, �Sorry, old cock, to leave it in this shape.�
Byrne didn�t respond to requests for comment. He was quoted by Sky News as saying the note was a joke. �I do hope David Laws� sense of humour wasn�t another casualty of the coalition deal,� he said, according to Sky News.
According to the Treasury, the letter read as follows: �Dear Chief Secretary, I�m afraid there�s no money. Kind regards -- and good luck! Liam.� |
Well damn. At least they weren't racists! |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Join the euro or not join the euro, we're broke! |
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Capo
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Depths of My Soul wrote: |
| Jimskins wrote: |
Britain doesn't like coalition governments, but the current situation has the potential to a do a lot of good for British politics and the country as a whole. |
It's about time we joined 'real Europe'. Hopefully the next step will be to join the Euro zone (the idea of holding onto the � is just for old fogies and racists, LOL).
Is anyone else already getting fed up of all the lib and lab 'protesters' who have coined the name: Con-Dem (n) *groans*
It's time to move on and give the new government a chance. Nu-Labour did nothing but **** things up anyway with their mostly Conservative policies. |
You gotta be kidding, Greece in sinking precisely because they are in the euro an are unable to devalue their currency to deal with their fiscal crisis.
I voted the UKIP because I want Britain to leave the EU, political union is not what we signed up for, especially one that is more currupt and less deomcratic than our own! The European project is only meant to be a free trade area....If France, Germany etc. want to make themselves less compeititve by having the EU with its rules and institutions let them have it. We need to join the likes of Norway and Switzerland that have a free trade agreement, but full national control over their laws and how their taxes are collected and spent. |
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Capo
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| rusty1983 wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
| rusty1983 wrote: |
| .38 Special wrote: |
The way you described it (and how it has sounded to me in the BBC coverage, as well), it sounds as though legislation isn't voted for based upon its merits but instead by whose party you belong to
The Founding Fathers of American politics warned that parties would corrupt the Republic. I reckon plying the welfare of the people against loyalties to arbitrary associations will destroy the legitimacy of any government type in any place.
But glad to hear you've got something bearable to work with. |
You pretty much nailed British Politics there my friend. It's a power game and a popularity contest. Generally theyre a self-serving, lying bunch of tw@ts. |
... Wanna trade |
I suppose politicians lying and being corrupt isnt a British phenomenon |
Its not only politicians....I just read one of the worst pieces of journalism I have ever seen.
| Quote: |
Dignity is the word I most often hear used about Darling. In the face of the worst international financial crisis in decades, plus internal briefings which he himself called "the forces of Hell", Darling emerged as a cool-headed and very wise Chancellor, to whom much of the credit should go over the key decisions that allowed Britain to avoid recession.
Front-line politics will be poorer without him. |
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/public-accounts/2010/05/darling-front-labour-politics
I'll leave it to you to figure out what is wrong with that paragraph. Never particularly liked the New Stateman, because of it's blind left wing bias but this article baggars belief! |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Capo wrote: |
| Depths of My Soul wrote: |
| Jimskins wrote: |
Britain doesn't like coalition governments, but the current situation has the potential to a do a lot of good for British politics and the country as a whole. |
It's about time we joined 'real Europe'. Hopefully the next step will be to join the Euro zone (the idea of holding onto the � is just for old fogies and racists, LOL).
Is anyone else already getting fed up of all the lib and lab 'protesters' who have coined the name: Con-Dem (n) *groans*
It's time to move on and give the new government a chance. Nu-Labour did nothing but **** things up anyway with their mostly Conservative policies. |
You gotta be kidding, Greece in sinking precisely because they are in the euro an are unable to devalue their currency to deal with their fiscal crisis.
I voted the UKIP because I want Britain to leave the EU, political union is not what we signed up for, especially one that is more currupt and less deomcratic than our own! The European project is only meant to be a free trade area....If France, Germany etc. want to make themselves less compeititve by having the EU with its rules and institutions let them have it. We need to join the likes of Norway and Switzerland that have a free trade agreement, but full national control over their laws and how their taxes are collected and spent. |
I'm pretty sure the European project as we know it started out from the get-go with the explicit aim of "Ever closer and deeper union". Everyone should've known this was what we were getting ourselves into when we joined. Hell, I thought the whole reason that from the 1960s onwards when MacMillan wanted us to join was because inside the then EEC we could see our neighbours actually making something of themselves.
I also thought Switzerland's success is because of their secretive banking ("Swiss bank accounts" etc), and I thought Norway refused to join because of the fisheries policy. Norway subsequently became wealthier because unlike the UK they actually seem to have saved their portion of the proceeds from North Sea Oil instead of spending it on tax cuts or whatever. As such, I'm not convinced that the UK pulling out and having FT agreement with the EU will necessarily make us as prosperous as those two countries, because the causes of their prosperity is not due to being outside the EU, except in the case of Switzerland because EU rules would force them to disclose more information about the Swiss bank accounts and what have you. However the savings through the UK being a net-contributor (I believe) to EU would be welcome for the public finances.
I quite liked Farage for shaking things up a bit but I find the whole UKIP worldview very simplistic. EU = BAAAAAD. There's more to it than that. |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| Capo wrote: |
| Depths of My Soul wrote: |
| Jimskins wrote: |
Britain doesn't like coalition governments, but the current situation has the potential to a do a lot of good for British politics and the country as a whole. |
It's about time we joined 'real Europe'. Hopefully the next step will be to join the Euro zone (the idea of holding onto the � is just for old fogies and racists, LOL).
Is anyone else already getting fed up of all the lib and lab 'protesters' who have coined the name: Con-Dem (n) *groans*
It's time to move on and give the new government a chance. Nu-Labour did nothing but **** things up anyway with their mostly Conservative policies. |
You gotta be kidding, Greece in sinking precisely because they are in the euro an are unable to devalue their currency to deal with their fiscal crisis.
I voted the UKIP because I want Britain to leave the EU, political union is not what we signed up for, especially one that is more currupt and less deomcratic than our own! The European project is only meant to be a free trade area....If France, Germany etc. want to make themselves less compeititve by having the EU with its rules and institutions let them have it. We need to join the likes of Norway and Switzerland that have a free trade agreement, but full national control over their laws and how their taxes are collected and spent. |
I'm pretty sure the European project as we know it started out from the get-go with the explicit aim of "Ever closer and deeper union". Everyone should've known this was what we were getting ourselves into when we joined. Hell, I thought the whole reason that from the 1960s onwards when MacMillan wanted us to join was because inside the then EEC we could see our neighbours actually making something of themselves.
I also thought Switzerland's success is because of their secretive banking ("Swiss bank accounts" etc), and I thought Norway refused to join because of the fisheries policy. Norway subsequently became wealthier because unlike the UK they actually seem to have saved their portion of the proceeds from North Sea Oil instead of spending it on tax cuts or whatever. As such, I'm not convinced that the UK pulling out and having FT agreement with the EU will necessarily make us as prosperous as those two countries, because the causes of their prosperity is not due to being outside the EU, except in the case of Switzerland because EU rules would force them to disclose more information about the Swiss bank accounts and what have you. However the savings through the UK being a net-contributor (I believe) to EU would be welcome for the public finances.
I quite liked Farage for shaking things up a bit but I find the whole UKIP worldview very simplistic. EU = BAAAAAD. There's more to it than that. |
I might agree with leaving Europe altogether if we werent completely screwed over financially. From the sounds of it we might need the support that can be offered.
Also Id think it were a good idea if British people were willing to accept that the Empires gone, we are a medium sized European country that doesnt manufacture anything anymore, is fast running out of the little oil we have left and has traded on little but imaginary credit money for the last 20 years.
How the hell would we support a nation of avid-consumerists and career jobseekers?
If the Daily Mail readers want to revert back to a more self-sufficient state of affairs they might well have to give up their high defs and move to somewhere near an allotment. When they see the inevitable drop in living-standards they may want to take advantage of the visa-free situation to bugger off to the Costa Del Sol.
Finally, and this may sound paranoid, but a European super state would come in handy if a big war ever kicked off again! |
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