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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: |
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...yet they delude themselves into thinking they are making big bucks here and are somehow convinced that back home in America, MAs and PhDs are working at Burger King...
| Seoulio wrote: |
| As for the 90% employment rate you state back home, there is NO WAY those stats show people who are in their chosen field, or areas of expertise. Many of those jobs are people working at BUrger King to pay their rent |
| Senior wrote: |
| how about MA or PHDs working at Starbucks or BK? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
English teachers are poor! and live like rats in a hole!
if you call making 2.5 million a month and living in a 10pyung apartment and working 40 hours a week rich!! then you be smoking some crack!
of course I am talking about the average ESL *beep* here... |
You are looking at ESL teachers, comparing them with workers specifically in developed countries only, and declaring them comparatively poor. The web site in question is looking at ESL teachers, comparing them with everyone in the world, and declaring them comparatively wealthy.
It's easy to feel poor when you ignore 90% of the world's working population in your consideration. It's hard to feel poor when you take all those people into account. Genuinely poor people physically toil for less money in a week than we make in a day, or even simply lack income entirely, scraping by on what they can scavenge or grow themselves.
It's easy to forget just how good our lives really are. That doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with what you have. It just means you should recognize that you're quite lucky from any broad perspective to even have what you have, and the fact that you can earn even more with hard work is even better. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
English teachers are poor! and live like rats in a hole!
if you call making 2.5 million a month and living in a 10pyung apartment and working 40 hours a week rich!! then you be smoking some crack!
of course I am talking about the average ESL *beep* here... |
You are looking at ESL teachers, comparing them with workers specifically in developed countries only, and declaring them comparatively poor. The web site in question is looking at ESL teachers, comparing them with everyone in the world, and declaring them comparatively wealthy.
It's easy to feel poor when you ignore 90% of the world's working population in your consideration. It's hard to feel poor when you take all those people into account. Genuinely poor people physically toil for less money in a week than we make in a day, or even simply lack income entirely, scraping by on what they can scavenge or grow themselves.
It's easy to forget just how good our lives really are. That doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with what you have. It just means you should recognize that you're quite lucky from any broad perspective to even have what you have, and the fact that you can earn even more with hard work is even better. |
Look at the posting time and general spelling and punctuation. Is it really worthwhile responding to a post that was obviously typed 2 bottles of soju deep?
Really this issue is closed. It's one of those things that seems counter intuitive at first, but when you look at it closely for a short time, it becomes blindingly obvious. Single items which are available to the majority of people today eg antibiotics, cell phones, automobiles etc, are more valuable than everything that existed 100 years ago. It's really quite exciting to think about the things that will be available to us in another 50-100 years. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Another way to look at it is by your cost of living to your income; not by how much things cost back home and how much people make in 3rd world countries where the cost of living is dirt cheap by our standards. If you take home $2000 a month and your cost of living is $800, you are at the same level as someone in an economy 10X cheaper than your living in Korea making $200 a month with $80 cost of living assuming neither of you travel or need to make movement on airliners to higher cost of living places where people fall in the top 10% of incomes like where many of us come from. Sure Korea pays more than most other countries, but the cost of living is relatively on par with a 1st world country.
My Korean friend told me that Koreans typically start out at 2 million won a month when young, but move up into the 3 to 5 million bracket in their 30's where 3 to 5 million a month is quite average for Korean men. Teaching does pay on the low side just about everywhere, but pay is very different in each country due to cost of living difference. Just becuase you fall in the top 10% among everyone in the world doesn't mean you are rich, it means you are probably paying a premium price on your cost of living. If you earned $2000 a month living in one of those cheap tropical countries, then you are good as gold. |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
I have often in my life been keenly aware that I and those around me are in the top 10% in terms of wealth in the world and use that info to temper the whining and complaining people make over money. I am not financially ambitious, am quite satisfied with what I make and have made, whether it be more or less than now, it's still not only vastly more than the majority of humanity but also much more wealth than most people EVER have had throughout human history. Putting it all into context makes one less petty about the little things. My cup's much closer to being full than empty and I don't need more money to top it off.
The obsession Koreans display over wealth, the stress and pressure to make more and more and putting lifetime success in material terms is a bit headshaking. It's one thing to work hard and to like nice cars and homes. It's another to define one's life and happiness around the pursuit of it and to contemplate suicide over the failure to attain it. Koreans collectively and individually have this need to be number one, are discontent with their efforts, as if a mental flogging of themselves is needed to keep them striving. It's quite an ingrained cultural thing. Even as young as elementary school they get the pressure. The contrast between them and I is constant in this regard. They have no idea how much more relaxing and fun childhood can be! |
Wow, that was a great read. Thanks! You made my day! |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
Sure Korea pays more than most other countries, but the cost of living is relatively on par with a 1st world country.
My Korean friend told me that Koreans typically start out at 2 million won a month when young, but move up into the 3 to 5 million bracket in their 30's where 3 to 5 million a month is quite average for Korean men. Teaching does pay on the low side just about everywhere, but pay is very different in each country due to cost of living difference. Just becuase you fall in the top 10% among everyone in the world doesn't mean you are rich, it means you are probably paying a premium price on your cost of living. |
Correct. We (E-2 visa holders) are not rich compared to Koreans, nor are we rich compared to Americans.
Fresh Graduates Earn W2.2 Million on Average
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/11/24/2009112400557.html
...Korean teachers get paid even more...
Teachers `Overpaid� by OECD Standard
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2008/03/123_21163.html
| Quote: |
| An annual salary of a Korean elementary school teacher was 2.34 times higher than per-capita GDP |
| Xuanzang wrote: |
| They also have unreported income sources such as privates, bribes or bonuses for various holidays. |
Of course, the U.S. is the richest country in the world, and if you were lucky enough to have been born there, you will have the most opportunity to make the most money there.
Though many would disagree with me, I am of the opinion that if you are in this line of work for the money only, then I don't think being here is the absolute best choice available for one's life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_hour_worked |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
Look at the posting time and general spelling and punctuation. Is it really worthwhile responding to a post that was obviously typed 2 bottles of soju deep?
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He pretty much always spells and punctuates like that. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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These are complex issues and I think we are sometimes mismeasuring things.
It is likely true that salary needs to be keyed to local costs of living. Someone who makes $2000 a month in San Francisco is not as rich as someone making $500 a month in Vietnam.
While Korean teachers often make more than ESL teachers here, Korean teachers generally work longer hours. My daughter's teachers are there upwards of 12 hours a day (even if they aren't always, well, 'there').
I think saying that we live better than someone a century ago is a terribly subjective statement. Materially, on average we certainly do. But how do I know my ancestor, who might have been perfectly content farming and living in a village with friends and relatives in a peaceful community, was worse off than someone who has internet on his telephone, a flight to Madrid, and hates his stressful, lonely life?
In general, we have it pretty good. Not many of us wishing we could move to North Korea or Sudan, but a lot of people there who would be happy to come here. |
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kiknkorea
Joined: 16 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Though many would disagree with me, I am of the opinion that if you are in this line of work for the money only, then I don't think being here is the absolute best choice available for one's life. |
No disagreement here, I agree 100%.
A lot of the complaining on this board seems to come from those who are solely here for the money.
That said, this can be a good choice for those starting fresh out of college.
It's a good opportunity to travel before starting a family, buying a house, and settling down. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| kiknkorea wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Though many would disagree with me, I am of the opinion that if you are in this line of work for the money only, then I don't think being here is the absolute best choice available for one's life. |
No disagreement here, I agree 100%.
A lot of the complaining on this board seems to come from those who are solely here for the money.
That said, this can be a good choice for those starting fresh out of college.
It's a good opportunity to travel before starting a family, buying a house, and settling down. |
It can also be a good opportunity TO start a family, buy a house and settle down as many here have demonstrated on numerous occasions... |
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kiknkorea
Joined: 16 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
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^That too.  |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| All I want is minions. People I can tell "Seize him you fools! He's gettign away!" That's all I want. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| All I want is minions. People I can tell "Seize him you fools! He's gettign away!" That's all I want. |
I want a lab coat and some smoking test tubes, so that I can say "They laughed at me in Berlin. They laughed at me in Prague. Fools! I'll destroy you all!"
Minions sound fun too. Where do you get them? Perhaps there's some website like rentaminion.com, like the ones Republican morality advocates use. |
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