Korean Job Discussion Forums

[misher]

Hi all,

I just want to get some general feedback regarding university positions and vacation.

It seems that most university positions nowadays offer at least 8-10 weeks of PAID vacation. Some even up to 16-20 weeks!

But seriously, how long do you think this is going to last? Things are obviously going to change in the future. The economy maybe won't be as healthy and unis will tighten their bootstraps and make teachers do other kinds of work during vacation and also the number of returning Koreans that speak English insanely well will be a lot higher.

I want to go for an MA in applied linguistics or TESOL in a year or so at a good uni in the states because I am planning on being in South Korea for a long time (getting married) and want a job that will give me ample vacation time to spend with my wife and go home to see family. I thought the unis were the way to go but there is just something that is telling me that in 5-10 years form now most uni positions are going to be like unigwons. 22 hours teaching, 4 weeks vacation etc etc. If that is the case then uni teaching won't be worth it to me and I'll stick with teaching business English/test prep because the money is better and then eventually get a masters in something else. Any of you uni guys out there have any thoughts on this? Do you see your school offering the same vacation package 10 years from now?

[air76]

While the lower level universities might start to peel back the benefits...if you've got a Master's and 5+ years experience you'll easily be working at the mid-level to upper tier universities before any major changes would come through.

The better schools understand that if they want to attract decent instructors that they need to treat them fairly and not jerk them around. The schools that truly demand qualifications and experience also reward their staff.

I personally think that it is a pretty safe bet that if you get an MA and get into the university system now that you'll pretty much have a great job guaranteed for as long as you want one. That being said...I can't imagine wanting to do this job for a decade, but that's just me.

I work at a fairly low level university and we've got pretty much the full 20 weeks vacation...the contract officially says 10, but it's really 20 for all intents and purposes. The school itself isn't all that low level in terms of its overall ranking, but I mean low level in that they hire instructors who do not have MAs and do not have any prior university teaching experience.

[Hyeon Een]

I work at a uni with 22 weeks vacation. It's a pretty good deal.

I do wonder how long it will last though. As part of my job I meet professors from N.America and the UK and Ireland who are visiting Korea. When they ask about working conditions here they are AMAZED at how good they are. The amount of administration work a prof. in western countries has to do is insane. I think British university lecturers are lucky to get 3 weeks vacation a year due to the amount of administration work they have to do.

Korea in contrast is great, for both Koreans and foreigners. Most Korean profs these days (less so in the past) DO work in the vacation because they're writing papers, translating books etc. but it's work they're interested in rather than administrative annoyances. A Korean prof. I know has a full time mistress in S.Africa for example, that would be hard to do for a prof in N.America or Britain haha.

Anyway, as Korean universities becomes more westernized I think the amount of administrative work required of professors will go up, and consequently vacations will decrease.

For foreigners just teaching English at universities there may be a trend towards making them work summer or winter 'semesters'. (These are 16 days at my uni, with each day being the equivalent of 1 week during the regular semester). I expect this will remain voluntary at most universities, simply because there aren't that many students who want/need to take these extra classes.

I think the major negative trend in university positions over the next 10 years or so will be an increase in admin work, rather than teaching extra classes. I really hope this doesn't happen though. Administrative stuff does my head in.

[PatrickGHBusan]

I think an important disctinction needs to be made here.

Most of us who work or worked for Universities in Korea are hired as English Instructors or Guest Lecturers. This a completely different animal from what a Professor does.

This is not meant to diminish what Instructors and lectures do. It does however change the comparison made above.

I too had 20 weeks of vacation at my former university. But I was not hired as Professor. A typical North American Professor has research and publication requirements, teachign duties, thesis supervision, administrative work and other duties. This is completely different.

Just thought that was relevant to the discussion here.

Those Foreigners that are true Professors at Korean Universties may have a better comparative basis with North Am Profs. They would for starters have PhDs in the field they teach, be published, involved in reasearch to advance they field....

[KoreanAmbition]

I think I have to disagree with both of you guys on this one.

Patrick, I agree with your distinction, and I believe that Hyeun Een wasn't considering that fact. However, you went on to say that profs have a list of stuff to do, but I don't think it's much at all.

For example, admin duties. Profs have secretaries, and TA's. How much admin work are they actually doing?

As for thesis supervision, I don't think that's very accurate either. First off, for primarily undergraduate universities, profs have very little in terms of thesis supervision. However, even for profs that work for departments that have a lot of graduate programs, they usually aren't forced to supervise (it's normally encouraged) and IF it is mandatory, it's rarely on a continual basis. Of course there are some profs that like to supervise, so they do it every term, and that takes requirements away from others. But look at programs for potential thesis or dissertation advisors...they're not all doing it.

Yes, they have to publish, but I'm sure they're getting a decent financial perk for their publications. They should have more than enough time for research based on my next point.

At my last university (in Canada), my profs only taught 3 courses PER YEAR. For salary? I'd say the average for the whole department would have been about $140,000 per year.

Don't forget sabbaticals... gotta love that perk.

Hyeun Een, if they were profs, they were just making you feel good. Their jobs are cushy... they just didn't want to tell you.





To answer the OP's question... if you're worried, try to find a way to get into another department rather than English... you'll probably see your situation will be safer.

[PatrickGHBusan]

Good points KoreanAmbition.

I can expand on Professors duties at the two Canadian Universities I attended (undergrad and grad).

An average professor there worked 60 hours per week.

Typically he had 1 undergrad class to teach per semester. You are right that for that class he got TAs to do the grading. However, he had to spend a lot of time securing grants for research, doing research and other related tasks. That avergare professor also had one admin duty tacked on. One example was be responsible for undergrad students for a year. This meant dealing with admissions questions and other issues....time consuming.

The same prof had to teach one grad seminar per year and supervise Masters and PhD theses (thank you djsmnc
for the mistake notice). On average he would supervise 10 of those on an ongoing basis, some would graduate and others would start.

The you add duties as part of research groups (one way to get yet more funding for the University),conferences, symposiums and you get a packed week!!

Publication is not a financial perk for the profs I know. It is a requierement for advancement and hope for a full tenure-track position.

The average salary you quoted seems a but high and would be for full tenure-track professors. But under these you have assistant professors who are working their butts off hoping for tenure and at far lower salary. Mind you, they still get paid well. Its a long road from guest lecturer to full tenure-track professor and its not paved by easy hours and financial perks!

[djsmnc]

[.38 Special]

[PatrickGHBusan]

[KoreanAmbition]

Patrick,

I should have clarified that the profs I mentioned were business professors. However, that salary was an average including assistant, associate, or full professors.

In Ontario you can see all salaries of any public worker that earns over $100,000. It's all made public for anyone to see, so you can see their salary down to the penny, and it includes their exact job title.

For example, the University of Toronto has 2325 faculty (and some staff) that earn over $100,000 per year. Wow.

English profs (varying status levels) I randomly found...

- $194,000 (Vice-Dean)
- $192,000 (Dean)
- $168,000 (Chair)
- $162,000
- $135,000
- $157,000
- $142,000
- $108,000
- $111,000
- $104,000
- $113,000
- $146,000
- $143,000
- $158,000


Okay, I got down to last names starting with "H", but that took forever, so I'm giving up.


For interest sake, I found librarians with the following salaries:

- $113,000
- $104,000
- $101,000
- $109,000

[PatrickGHBusan]

Thanks KoreanAmbition.

Interesting response.

[misher]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I guess I was talking about becoming a guest lecturer or English Instructor. Not an actual professor.

If money were not a problem if one obtained a Master's degree in Linguistics/TESOL from a a good school (say Columbia's Teachers College?) would it be worth it? Or is doing an online program through Birmingham be a bit better.



Interesting responses. Thanks!

[winterfall]

[naturegirl321]

I don't kow if it will last, but my uni gives 20 weeks and I'm not going anywhere. According to our contract, we're assistant professors, but none of us have PhDs.