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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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 Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| And if it IS misogynistic, misogyny is still allowed under free speech. |
Indeed. |
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.38 Special
Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And if it IS misogynistic, misogyny is still allowed under free speech. |
Indeed. |
I suspect that we are using two very different dictionaries to define misogyny.
But both are cultural expectations. Whereas one encourages women to behave as objects of desire and exploit that, the other demands that women literally be treated as objects and whose health and comfort are secondary to the desires of men.
Niqab is a cultural monstrosity. Amusing t-shirts are barely a distraction. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
| For the liberals: how many Burka-totin' Koran thumpers can be brought into our countries before they're destroyed? Let's start with the UK. Population approx 60 million ppl. How many labour-voting alla beerhaters can this country safely sustain? Hit me. 3 million? 5 million? 20 million? Give me a number. |
Given you're the one that seems to believe a certain number of citizens wearing a certain type of attire can destroy a country, perhaps you should answer your own question. I don't think anyone who opposes limitations on our right to wear what we please believes that wearing a certain type of attire can lead to the destruction of a civilization, so obviously we can't answer. |
You're putting words in my mouth. |
No, I'm not.
| Kimbop wrote: |
| I'll make it simple for you: these people will predominantly vote for Sharia law. Wearing a certain type of attire can proliferate the evil idea of islam. Those who don't wear the burka will be called whores and be poked with sharp sticks, called fatsos, and everyone will laugh at them. |
Blah blah blah. Just answer your own question. How many of these burqa wearers will it take to destroy the UK? Give me a number. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| All fat women should have to wear burqas, regardless of their religious affiliation. The other women should be able to wear whatever they want, or even prance around nude. |
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Welsh Canadian
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
| For the liberals: how many Burka-totin' Koran thumpers can be brought into our countries before they're destroyed? Let's start with the UK. Population approx 60 million ppl. How many labour-voting alla beerhaters can this country safely sustain? Hit me. 3 million? 5 million? 20 million? Give me a number. |
Given you're the one that seems to believe a certain number of citizens wearing a certain type of attire can destroy a country, perhaps you should answer your own question. I don't think anyone who opposes limitations on our right to wear what we please believes that wearing a certain type of attire can lead to the destruction of a civilization, so obviously we can't answer. |
You're putting words in my mouth. |
No, I'm not.
| Kimbop wrote: |
| I'll make it simple for you: these people will predominantly vote for Sharia law. Wearing a certain type of attire can proliferate the evil idea of islam. Those who don't wear the burka will be called whores and be poked with sharp sticks, called fatsos, and everyone will laugh at them. |
Blah blah blah. Just answer your own question. How many of these burqa wearers will it take to destroy the UK? Give me a number. |
How many deaths did it take for the Nazi regime to take over Germany??? |
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Welsh Canadian
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| All fat women should have to wear burqas, regardless of their religious affiliation. The other women should be able to wear whatever they want, or even prance around nude. |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Welsh Canadian wrote: |
| How many deaths did it take for the Nazi regime to take over Germany??? |
They wore crosses, not burqas.  |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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I see the Arab view on this.
Some women should be covered. |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| All fat women should have to wear burqas, regardless of their religious affiliation. The other women should be able to wear whatever they want, or even prance around nude. |
After teaching some niqab wearers for a few weeks, Im starting to think that the problem is that they arent fat, but often stunningly beautiful. I you had met me, and were sending your wife to leanr at my school, it might not seem like a bad idea  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Not sure if this case has been mentioned in this thread...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/15/parvez-guilty-plea.html
| Quote: |
"[S]he was experiencing conflict at home over cultural differences between living in Canada and back [in Pakistan],"
She told her father she did not wish to wear the hijab any longer. She wanted to dress in Western clothes and have the same freedoms as the other girls in her high school. |
| Quote: |
On Dec. 10, 2007, Aqsa was taken from the school bus stop by her brother at approximately 7:20 a.m. It was just 36 minutes later that her father called 911 and told police he had "killed his daughter."
Police arrived and found Aqsa on her bed.
"She was fully clothed and had her jacket on. She had no vital signs. There was blood coming from her nose," according to the statement.
She was pronounced dead later that evening. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
I agree with Derb:
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2010-04-02.html
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07 � Belgium bans burkas. Ah, plucky little Belgium. Yes, when push comes to shove for Western Civ., Belgium is always in the front line. Here they are again, headline from the London Daily Mail: Belgium moves to become first European country to ban the burka. Radio Derb's been here before too, just four weeks ago, and we'll say again what we said then: "Libertarianism in One Country."
Bottom line: Let X be the proportion of your population made up by immigrants from utterly different cultures; and let Y be the number of laws you have to pass restricting personal liberty. Derbyshire's theorem states that Y is proportional to X. If you have a huge immigrant population with strange garments, customs, and languages, you will have a lot of frictions in your society, and you will need laws to control those frictions.
So here, once again, is Radio Derb's solution to the burka problem: severely restrict immigration from places where women wear burkas, and ask burka-ed non-citizens to leave. Then let citizens dress as they please, within the constraints of customary modesty, whatever those constraints are for your particular society. The better you guard your borders, and the more parsimonious you are with settlement visas, the more freedom your citizens can enjoy. Libertarianism in one country. Belgium has got itself another Nanny State law, because Belgium allowed 650 thousand Muslims to settle there. If they hadn't allowed the settlement, they wouldn't need the law. What's difficult to understand here? |
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That's assuming that only women from such cultures are the ones who wear those garments. I know for a fact that many many girls who've taken up the niqab in the UK are not from (and whose parents are not from) cultures where the niqab is worn. It's a new trend. Most of them are taking it up voluntarily. Much of the time it's out of rebelliousness and their parents are set against it. Like a punk might dress more garishly to look more hardcore, a young muslim girl might dress in extreme clothing. Look, this is hardcore, innit!? Sometimes it's to say a big FU to mainstream society because they're feeling somewhat persecuted. Sometimes it's competitive. Look at me - I'm more pious than the girl next door!
The niqab and burka were once just confined to a few cultures. Now they're a big fashion.
I suspect banning it just makes it more appealing. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
I agree with Derb:
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2010-04-02.html
| Quote: |
07 � Belgium bans burkas. Ah, plucky little Belgium. Yes, when push comes to shove for Western Civ., Belgium is always in the front line. Here they are again, headline from the London Daily Mail: Belgium moves to become first European country to ban the burka. Radio Derb's been here before too, just four weeks ago, and we'll say again what we said then: "Libertarianism in One Country."
Bottom line: Let X be the proportion of your population made up by immigrants from utterly different cultures; and let Y be the number of laws you have to pass restricting personal liberty. Derbyshire's theorem states that Y is proportional to X. If you have a huge immigrant population with strange garments, customs, and languages, you will have a lot of frictions in your society, and you will need laws to control those frictions.
So here, once again, is Radio Derb's solution to the burka problem: severely restrict immigration from places where women wear burkas, and ask burka-ed non-citizens to leave. Then let citizens dress as they please, within the constraints of customary modesty, whatever those constraints are for your particular society. The better you guard your borders, and the more parsimonious you are with settlement visas, the more freedom your citizens can enjoy. Libertarianism in one country. Belgium has got itself another Nanny State law, because Belgium allowed 650 thousand Muslims to settle there. If they hadn't allowed the settlement, they wouldn't need the law. What's difficult to understand here? |
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That's assuming that only women from such cultures are the ones who wear those garments. I know for a fact that many many girls who've taken up the niqab in the UK are not from (and whose parents are not from) cultures where the niqab is worn. It's a new trend. Most of them are taking it up voluntarily. Much of the time it's out of rebelliousness and their parents are set against it. Like a punk might dress more garishly to look more hardcore, a young muslim girl might dress in extreme clothing. Look, this is hardcore, innit!? Sometimes it's to say a big FU to mainstream society because they're feeling somewhat persecuted. Sometimes it's competitive. Look at me - I'm more pious than the girl next door!
The niqab and burka were once just confined to a few cultures. Now they're a big fashion.
I suspect banning it just makes it more appealing. |
Fine. Best deal with it now. Ethnic conflict manifested in clothing bans is not indicative of a bright future. Derb is right. Kick out the foreigners who wear it and allow no inbound migration from islamic states and of islamic people. Then hope to hell the lid doesn't blow off. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
I agree with Derb:
http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2010-04-02.html
| Quote: |
07 — Belgium bans burkas. Ah, plucky little Belgium. Yes, when push comes to shove for Western Civ., Belgium is always in the front line. Here they are again, headline from the London Daily Mail: Belgium moves to become first European country to ban the burka. Radio Derb's been here before too, just four weeks ago, and we'll say again what we said then: "Libertarianism in One Country."
Bottom line: Let X be the proportion of your population made up by immigrants from utterly different cultures; and let Y be the number of laws you have to pass restricting personal liberty. Derbyshire's theorem states that Y is proportional to X. If you have a huge immigrant population with strange garments, customs, and languages, you will have a lot of frictions in your society, and you will need laws to control those frictions.
So here, once again, is Radio Derb's solution to the burka problem: severely restrict immigration from places where women wear burkas, and ask burka-ed non-citizens to leave. Then let citizens dress as they please, within the constraints of customary modesty, whatever those constraints are for your particular society. The better you guard your borders, and the more parsimonious you are with settlement visas, the more freedom your citizens can enjoy. Libertarianism in one country. Belgium has got itself another Nanny State law, because Belgium allowed 650 thousand Muslims to settle there. If they hadn't allowed the settlement, they wouldn't need the law. What's difficult to understand here? |
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That's assuming that only women from such cultures are the ones who wear those garments. I know for a fact that many many girls who've taken up the niqab in the UK are not from (and whose parents are not from) cultures where the niqab is worn. It's a new trend. Most of them are taking it up voluntarily. Much of the time it's out of rebelliousness and their parents are set against it. Like a punk might dress more garishly to look more hardcore, a young muslim girl might dress in extreme clothing. Look, this is hardcore, innit!? Sometimes it's to say a big FU to mainstream society because they're feeling somewhat persecuted. Sometimes it's competitive. Look at me - I'm more pious than the girl next door!
The niqab and burka were once just confined to a few cultures. Now they're a big fashion.
I suspect banning it just makes it more appealing. |
Fine. Best deal with it now. Ethnic conflict manifested in clothing bans is not indicative of a bright future. Derb is right. Kick out the foreigners who wear it and allow no inbound migration from islamic states and of islamic people. Then hope to hell the lid doesn't blow off. |
Half Agree- I am for restricted immigration. I am for the Burqa. Random people can't just come in and crash (well sometimes they can). But there is no way I'm going to tell the guy subletting how to dress. So he wears Colorado Avalanche gear everyday and I'm a Wings fan, that's my deal I have to get over, not his. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think that the niqab is always an oppressive thing, but it certainly can be. I've spent a lot of time in Malaysia which is a Muslim country, but is in many ways very western. I met women wearing it in high class malls wearing Burberry and Gucci. Hardly oppressed. I also met girls who told me that it was done out of respect for their religion and family, not because they were forced to. Look at Turkey, the niqab is banned, but WOMEN are CHOOSING to break the ban. Telling women they can't wear the niqab is just as misogynistic, both views take away the womens choice of what to wear. The laws are hopelessly prejudiced and racist. If a man abuses his wife, put him in jail for abuse. |
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pulse_pace
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Not sure if this case has been mentioned in this thread...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/15/parvez-guilty-plea.html
| Quote: |
"[S]he was experiencing conflict at home over cultural differences between living in Canada and back [in Pakistan],"
She told her father she did not wish to wear the hijab any longer. She wanted to dress in Western clothes and have the same freedoms as the other girls in her high school. |
| Quote: |
On Dec. 10, 2007, Aqsa was taken from the school bus stop by her brother at approximately 7:20 a.m. It was just 36 minutes later that her father called 911 and told police he had "killed his daughter."
Police arrived and found Aqsa on her bed.
"She was fully clothed and had her jacket on. She had no vital signs. There was blood coming from her nose," according to the statement.
She was pronounced dead later that evening. |
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UPDATE:
Her dad and brother were sentenced to life in prison. With a chance of parole after 18 years.
Dirtbags! This honor killings bull crap really gets me angry! |
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