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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: U.S. Citizen Held for 3 Days by Immigration, Despite I.D. |
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Article here.
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Eduardo Caraballo, a U.S. citizen born in the United States, was detained for over three days on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
Despite presenting identifying documents and even his birth certificate, Caraballo was held by federal immigration authorities over the weekend and threatened with deportation, according to an NBC Chicago report. He was only released when his congressman, Luis Gutierrez -- a vocal supporter of immigration reform -- intervened on his behalf.
(Scroll down for video of Caraballo and Rep. Gutierrez.)
Caraballo was born in Puerto Rico, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States. He moved to the mainland as an infant, and now lives in Chicago.
Last week, NBC reports that he was arrested in connection with a stolen car in Berwyn. Caraballo maintains his innocence. In any case, when his mother posted bail on Friday, he was not freed.
"Instead of being released, he was told by authorities that Immigration and Customs Enforcement was detaining him because he was an illegal immigrant," NBC reports.
Caraballo spent the weekend in the custody of federal immigration agents. When he presented them with ID and his birth certificate, he says officials were skeptical: "Because of the way I look, I have Mexican features, they pretty much assumed that my papers were fake."
Only after his congressman interceded was Caraballo set free.
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Note that this did not occur in Arizona. It does, however, show the problem with expecting authority figures to use their judgment when it comes to detaining and arresting people based on suspicion that they may not be residents. This man had identification that proved he was a U.S. citizen and was still held.
Time and again we see why immigration law needs to focus on removing the incentive of illegal immigrants to come here by preventing employers from illegally hiring them rather than trying to crack down on them as individuals. No, we don't need to piss away money on predator drones on the Mexican border (an actual request from Republicans). What we need is to work with incentives. Eliminate Mexican criminals smuggling drugs by legalizing drugs. Eliminate illegal workers by preventing companies from hiring them illegally. This is far more humane, it will be far more effective in the long term, and best of all it doesn't involve American citizens spending time in Federal custody simply because they look Mexican. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: U.S. Citizen Held for 3 Days by Immigration, Despite I.D |
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| Fox wrote: |
Article here.
| Quote: |
Eduardo Caraballo, a U.S. citizen born in the United States, was detained for over three days on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
Despite presenting identifying documents and even his birth certificate, Caraballo was held by federal immigration authorities over the weekend and threatened with deportation, according to an NBC Chicago report. He was only released when his congressman, Luis Gutierrez -- a vocal supporter of immigration reform -- intervened on his behalf.
(Scroll down for video of Caraballo and Rep. Gutierrez.)
Caraballo was born in Puerto Rico, making him a natural-born citizen of the United States. He moved to the mainland as an infant, and now lives in Chicago.
Last week, NBC reports that he was arrested in connection with a stolen car in Berwyn. Caraballo maintains his innocence. In any case, when his mother posted bail on Friday, he was not freed.
"Instead of being released, he was told by authorities that Immigration and Customs Enforcement was detaining him because he was an illegal immigrant," NBC reports.
Caraballo spent the weekend in the custody of federal immigration agents. When he presented them with ID and his birth certificate, he says officials were skeptical: "Because of the way I look, I have Mexican features, they pretty much assumed that my papers were fake."
Only after his congressman interceded was Caraballo set free.
... |
Note that this did not occur in Arizona. It does, however, show the problem with expecting authority figures to use their judgment when it comes to detaining and arresting people based on suspicion that they may not be residents. This man had identification that proved he was a U.S. citizen and was still held.
Time and again we see why immigration law needs to focus on removing the incentive of illegal immigrants to come here by preventing employers from illegally hiring them rather than trying to crack down on them as individuals. No, we don't need to piss away money on predator drones on the Mexican border (an actual request from Republicans). What we need is to work with incentives. Eliminate Mexican criminals smuggling drugs by legalizing drugs. Eliminate illegal workers by preventing companies from hiring them illegally. This is far more humane, it will be far more effective in the long term, and best of all it doesn't involve American citizens spending time in Federal custody simply because they look Mexican. |
Christ. |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| "I was borrrrrn in East LA!!" |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes . My hometown newspaper is full of letters calling for the government to start punishing employers who hire illegals, and my home town is as redneck as you can get. the ARizona law which I do not think will actually ever be enforced was an attempt to get the federal government to do something, to have some sort of consistent policy. There also needs to be an efort by the Mexican government to REFORM its self. A guest worker program is probably what is needed but the big companies dont want that. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| There also needs to be an efort by the Mexican government to REFORM its self. |
While this would be good, our national policy cannot predicate itself upon Mexico's compliance or cooperation. Mexico really doesn't seem to care how the United States is affected by any of this, and given their situation that's hardly surprising.
| rollo wrote: |
| A guest worker program is probably what is needed but the big companies dont want that. |
Of course they don't. The status quo is preferable to them in nearly every way so long as the law is enforced in a lax fashion. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| We dont have a national policy!! Thats why the Arizona craziness! Except it's not crazy it is an attempt to force some sort of effort to sort the mess out. Everyone knows that it is corporations that want the illegals here and people are tired of the government taking the corporations side on the issue. The illegals are used, abused then deported. the American worker stays unemployed the corporations get richer. Legal immigrants are the ones hurt worst by the illegals. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| We dont have a national policy!! Thats why the Arizona craziness! Except it's not crazy it is an attempt to force some sort of effort to sort the mess out. Everyone knows that it is corporations that want the illegals here and people are tired of the government taking the corporations side on the issue. The illegals are used, abused then deported. the American worker stays unemployed the corporations get richer. Legal immigrants are the ones hurt worst by the illegals. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with this:
http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=6306
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Arizona doesn�t have an illegal immigration problem; Arizona has an organized crime violence problem. What created the incentives for organized crime (and its penchant for violence) to develop? Well, the War on Drugs, of course.
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The United States doesn�t have an illegal immigration problem; it has a government entitlements problem. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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It is already illegal for US businesses to hire illegal aliens. There is little more to be done to:
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| Eliminate illegal workers by preventing companies from hiring them illegally. |
The problem is that the next step in attacking businesses is usually a national ID card and INS raids that target people just because they look Mexican.
However, legalizing all drugs and eliminating all entitlement programs would go a long way to solving the actual problem. These things must be done in any case if the US wants to preserve civil liberties and the economy in the long term.
In the end, the best for the economy and the most humanitarian solution for foreign workers would be to open the borders, make it legal for US businesses to hire foreign workers, tell the government to do nothing at all, and for nosey busybodies and jealous low-wage workers to shut up, drink less beer, work more, save more and invest in their own lives. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| It is already illegal for US businesses to hire illegal aliens. |
Right, but it's not particularly enforced.
| ontheway wrote: |
There is little more to be done to:
| Quote: |
| Eliminate illegal workers by preventing companies from hiring them illegally. |
The problem is that the next step in attacking businesses is usually a national ID card and INS raids that target people just because they look Mexican. |
I'd far rather see frequent random checks on businesses to ensure the legality of all their workers than random individual citizens being arrested out of "reasonable suspicion." I also think it would be more effective; you're not going to get rid of millions of illegal immigrants by deporting them one at a time, but you might if you can effectively target their employment. If people are serious about wanting illegal immigrants gone, I think this is a step that will have to be taken. The alternative is accepting illegal immigrant presence and forming a policy around it (the one you describe below being one possible example). |
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Jandar
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| The problem is that Immigration authorities are short of resources, so allowing local authorities to help isn't such a bad idea. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
There is little more to be done to:
| Quote: |
| Eliminate illegal workers by preventing companies from hiring them illegally. |
The problem is that the next step in attacking businesses is usually a national ID card and INS raids that target people just because they look Mexican. |
I'd far rather see frequent random checks on businesses to ensure the legality of all their workers than random individual citizens being arrested out of "reasonable suspicion." I also think it would be more effective; you're not going to get rid of millions of illegal immigrants by deporting them one at a time, but you might if you can effectively target their employment. If people are serious about wanting illegal immigrants gone, I think this is a step that will have to be taken. The alternative is accepting illegal immigrant presence and forming a policy around it (the one you describe below being one possible example). |
No, you still can't police 11 million illegals this way. Take a look at some of the controversies surrounding ICE raids, and you may realize its not ideology stopping people from supporting raids on businesses.
ACLU on ICE raids
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| Most Americans cannot imagine being corralled at the workplace or woken up in the middle of the night by strangers and forced to supply proof of citizenship. Yet that's exactly what happens to many Latinos in this country whether they are here legally or not despite the Fourth Amendment's prohibition of warrantless intrusions into private homes, which apply to all persons, regardless of immigration status. |
IOW, ICE raids are worse than these police stops, because at least the Arizona police require reasonable suspicion to ask for proof of citizenship (like a broken tail-light).
The only reasonable solution to this madness are visas. And even that won't be clean. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| The only reasonable solution is to repeal all taxes on income and property, abolish all entitlement programs, open the borders and allow the workers and immigrants to come in. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
There is little more to be done to:
| Quote: |
| Eliminate illegal workers by preventing companies from hiring them illegally. |
The problem is that the next step in attacking businesses is usually a national ID card and INS raids that target people just because they look Mexican. |
I'd far rather see frequent random checks on businesses to ensure the legality of all their workers than random individual citizens being arrested out of "reasonable suspicion." I also think it would be more effective; you're not going to get rid of millions of illegal immigrants by deporting them one at a time, but you might if you can effectively target their employment. If people are serious about wanting illegal immigrants gone, I think this is a step that will have to be taken. The alternative is accepting illegal immigrant presence and forming a policy around it (the one you describe below being one possible example). |
No, you still can't police 11 million illegals this way. Take a look at some of the controversies surrounding ICE raids, and you may realize its not ideology stopping people from supporting raids on businesses.
ACLU on ICE raids
| Quote: |
| Most Americans cannot imagine being corralled at the workplace or woken up in the middle of the night by strangers and forced to supply proof of citizenship. Yet that's exactly what happens to many Latinos in this country whether they are here legally or not despite the Fourth Amendment's prohibition of warrantless intrusions into private homes, which apply to all persons, regardless of immigration status. |
IOW, ICE raids are worse than these police stops, because at least the Arizona police require reasonable suspicion to ask for proof of citizenship (like a broken tail-light).
The only reasonable solution to this madness are visas. And even that won't be clean. |
I'm not suggesting residential raids though. Simply frequent, unannounced checks of business places during working hours, with companies having to account for the legality of their workers, not the workers themselves having to. No need to worry about places of residence or private individuals; places of employment are choke points. Companies caught employing illegals facing genuinely massive fines + frequent checks should equate to companies refusing to hire illegals.
As with any police enforcement, the goal is to scare the entities involved (in this case, the businesses) into compliance. Over time, check frequency could be reduced. If illegals are left jobless, they should eventually leave on their own. I don't see how this is different from regularly checking gas stations during working hours to ensure they aren't cheating their customers. It's not a difficult procedure, and keeps gas stations in compliance with the law. So long as it's done on a genuinely random basis, in an orderly fashion, and with the attention (and potential reprocussions) focused on the place of business rather than the workers, I don't currently see a huge problem with it.
I'm not necessarily against your visa idea, but I'm not sure it's politically possible, even beyond the basic complications and issues involved. |
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moosehead
Joined: 05 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: |
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it's my understanding most (all?) countries in the world now suffer from some sort of immigration issue.
there needs to be a global discussion on this - clearly it's part of the massive effort by corporations to divide up the world into market share as outlined in the book "Whose Trade Organisation?"
borders are nothing more than man-made attempts to control humanity's natural inclination to seek out a life that's suitable for raising a family and taking care of one's needs. these simple facts are not being met on a massive scale and are growing worse each year.
*interesting point* there will be a new exodus of migrants leaving the Gulf Coast as the oil spill continues to wreak havoc and destroy the enviornment. the question is - where will they go? and how will this impact other communities far removed from the spill? |
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