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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:34 pm Post subject: How long does it take to learn Korean? |
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How many years should I expect it to take me?
My Korean level is shockingly poor, but it's not for a lack of trying.
I've been here for almost a year and have studied every single day. I've put in hundreds of hours and am discouraged by the result.
I'm beginning to think that for a monolingual adult, gaining fluency in Korean may border on impossible for all but the most linguistically gifted.
I am justified in thinking this way?
(Information I've come across online has been disheartening).
| redaxe wrote: |
| I studied Mandarin Chinese and I find Korean about three or four times harder, I kid you not. |
| IconsFanatic wrote: |
| I felt learning Chinese and Japanese were relatively easy, and Korean infinitely harder. |
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As a non-Asian desperately trying to learn Korean, I hate to say this, but I back up the fact that Korean is impossible. :[
This is my second year and I still feel like I have learnt absolutely nothing. |
| misher wrote: |
| The only thing harder about chinese is the rote memorization and usage of characters. Everything else about Korean is 10x harder for me. |
| Observe wrote: |
| The truth is -- Foreigners do not speak Korean -- if you doubt me, count how many you know who speak it more than 'hi' 'thanks' and 'bye bye' level. |
| tomato wrote: |
| I have been here for 10 years, and I have met 2 wegukin's who could even compose a complete sentence. |
| Quote: |
I know many other foreigners who have lived in the country for ages. All of them made some effort at learning the language initially, but only the smallest handful ever made any progress.
While you do not need to know Chinese characters for basic literacy in Korean, you simply MUST know them to make any progress in vocabulary acqusition beyond the beginner's level.
Everyone I have ever met who has learned both Korean and Japanese agrees that their grammars are almost as similar as those of any two Romance languages, but that that of Japanese has been streamlined, while Korean remains comparatively much more complex.
I have made good progress in a number of other "difficult" or exotic languages such as Russian and Arabic. Compared to Korean, both of these languages are much easier, i.e., if you apply yourself well, consistently, and intelligently every day for a number of years, after a single handful you will be rather advanced. However, with Korean you will still be in a fog. I have studied scores of languages, and Korean is unquestionably the most difficult one I have ever encountered. |
| Quote: |
Chinese (Difficulty Rating: 9.8/10)
The easiest of the three is Chinese (which is fortunate because it's the one we're all going to need to know). I'm serious about this. Its grammar is the same SVO used in English, for the most part. In general, each character has only one sound, whereas each character in Japanese can have two or more sounds. Most regions where Chinese is spoken use simplified characters for writing, which are easier to learn. Some people may find the tones intimidating, and they are definitely not an artificial construct, but it is possible to speak Chinese entirely through mimicry, without being able to write a single tone. After three years at Hong Kong International School, I was completely ignorant of the tones, yet the Chinese seemed able to understand me well enough. Some people assume that reading Chinese is difficult because it uses characters exclusively, without any phonetic alphabet. Japanese uses almost as many characters as Chinese, but unlike Chinese, Japanese generally assigns multiple sound values to each character, so the amount that you have to learn in Japanese is probably greater.
Japanese (Difficulty Rating: 9.9/10)
I'd say that Japanese is the second most difficult language on Earth. A case could be made for it being the most difficult, but unlike Korean, there are many fluent speakers of Japanese who are not racially Japanese, so there is a lot of living proof that Japanese is possible for non-natives. Japanese has historically been viewed as extremely difficult, but due to the prominence of Japan on the world stage, many linguists have written extremely detailed, helpful books on the Japanese language. Almost all universities, so it would seem, offer Japanese courses, these days. Japanese may be very difficult, but there is an extensive support community for Japanese learners. Learners outside of Japan have access to a wide range of Japanese exports that can be useful for practice purposes. Phonetically-speaking, Japanese is extraordinarily simple, with only five vowels and a very limited number of consonants. There is only one ending consonant in Japanese -- 'n.' For this reason, it is not as easy to mistake one Japanese word for another.
Korean (Difficulty Rating: 11/10)
Korean is impossible. How do I know this? I go to Yonsei University's Korean Language Institute. I study Korean for four hours a day, five days a week (when I'm not on this darn forum ^^). Korean has 14 simple consonants and 10 simple vowels, which means a wide range of sounds. It is easy to mistake one for another. Koreans are not used to speaking with foreigners, because foreigners generally do not bother to learn Korean. They do not, in general, know how to tone down their vocabularies or slow down their speech so that foreigners can understand them. It has been said that relative to the other Asian languages, Korean has a lot more slang and swearing, and these are things that you will not learn in the classroom. Of course, you'll be lucky to even find a Korean classroom. Japanese classrooms are everywhere, but you'll pretty much have to either have Korean parents or go to Korea to learn Korean. There are next to no resources for learning Korean, and those that exist are often horrible (just take the Romanization-only 201 Korean Verbs, for instance). Whereas Chinese only has one set of word roots, Korean has two sets of word roots: native Korean, and those imported from Chinese, so by speaking Korean, you actually know a sizable subset of Chinese. This is similar to Japanese, but I didn't say Japanese was easy, either. Unlike Chinese and Japanese words, Korean words flow into each other through processes called "liaison," and "aspiration." Korean is only marginally easier to read. You may be able to pronounce words on a piece of paper, but since Korean does not have common word roots with English, you will have absolutely no idea what the word means, unless it's a loanword. Korean has far fewer loanwords than Japanese, so you will be less able to BS your reading ability. Despite the fact that I live in Korea and go to Yonsei, I have never met a white person who spoke Korean at the university level. I really want to meet one, to know that it's possible. |
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After my classes, I come straight home and lock myself in my apartment. For some reason, I would rather be with my books than with people.
I will be turning fifty soon, which means that I have been studying Korean for almost thirty years. My first "descent" Korean textbook was Myongdo Korean 1, given to me by a guy I knew in the navy who was nicknamed "Tex." That book was like the Rosetta stone to me because I finally got a logical explanation of the Korean language, something I did not get in the 32-week course I had recently completed at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California. I loved that Myongdo book and carried it with me almost everywhere I went. With that book, I felt that it was only a matter of time before I would be speaking Korean like a Korean. Boy, was I naive.
After almost thirty years of studying Korean, I am only now beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel, but even that may be a mirage since I have seen similar lights in the past. Korean has been like a carrot dangling from a stick in in front of my nose, tempting me to keep trudging along on my path to master the language, but always staying just out of reach. Sometimes I feel like a Guinea pig in some alien experiment in an episode of the Twilight Zone.
I wonder how my life would be different if I had not gotten addicted to Korean? Would I have married one of the women I pushed aside in my pursuit of the language. Would I now have a house, a family, and a dog somewhere in the US? Would I enjoy more the company of friends and family?
It has been so long that I cannot remember what it feels like to live a day without feeling obligated to pick up a Korean book and study. Sometimes I do not know if I am in heaven or hell. |
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noraebang
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Go to the blog Korean in Kuwait. http://www.koreaninkuwait.com/. The guy was very diligent with his study and learned an enormous amount in 18 months. He said he could basically do or express anything he wanted to at that point, although not necessarily like a native.
He wasn't in Korea, but he did immerse himself with Korean activities and media in his non-work hours. I think he had to perform his job in English however. He was a monolingual adult with a full time job. |
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noraebang
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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When I went to my university exchange, I had a white American friend who was doing a degree in Communications at the regular university, completely in Korean. He lived in Korea 2 years prior I think, worked at a cafe or something and spoke to people a lot, and didn't take full time classes--just the free ones. He said he was obsessed with trying to be able to think in Korean as fast as possible.
There's also a user here named Mithridates who had that level of dedication. I think the first time he came to Korea it was just to expose himself to the language full time. He was studying/practicing during all of his waking hours and it paid of generously within only a few months. He had learned Japanese first which helped him of course. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| fezmond wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| fezmond wrote: |
mithridates
I understand you were already fluent in Japanese, so had a headstart with the grammar already, but how many hours would you say you worked on Korean per day? |
About five when I was living in Japan, and then about fifteen a day during my first three-month stay here. Altogether it took about a year and a half. |
15 hours a day? do you mean living at breathing it for 15 hours a day?
I salute you sir |
Yeah, 24 hours minus seven hours of sleep and maybe two hours a day not studying. |
Mithridates is an inspiration! I'm going to start studying even harder! |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I started Korean with Pimsleur comprensive I & II. Now I am using Rosetta Stone levels I, II & III. To learn the basics of Korean including vocabulary, grammer structure and written structure, Rosetta Stone is pretty immersive. which I have mentioned before. I'm starting to see that eventually I should be able carry a basisc conversation with Koreans about many things. However Rosetta Stone is obviously not enough, it is good for very basic Korean though.
One thing that I think is good and can be done is, the children typically come up and talk and ask questions, along with the adults too. Carry an MP3 device and record what they say and ask a Korean friend what they are saying and ask about the structure. When you do that you are also immersing yourself in Korean in a very basic way, a way in which the basic aspects of Korean can be understood. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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If you really want to become proficient in Korean, you need to take some drastic steps. Assuming that you are working as an English teacher or something similar, I suggest you do the following:
- quit working as an English teacher, or at least quit working full time
- enroll in a full-time university Korean program (i.e. at least 20 hours of class per week)
- move into a 하숙집 and practice talking with the 아줌마 as much as possible
- hang out exclusively or nearly exclusively with Koreans and other foreigners who don't speak English and want to speak with you in Korean
- avoid going to places with English-speaking staff, English menus, etc.
- practice speaking Korean every time you go somewhere, even asking for things you don't necessarily need
- keep note cards so you can write down new phrases and vocabulary words that you encounter each day
- study, of course
If you do all of these things, you can get proficient at Korean. To those who said that no Westerns are good at Korean, well, that's simply not true. I have a couple Western friends who can use Korean at a university level. And there are others, such as Isaac Durst, who speak Korean pretty darn well. Learning Korean to a high degree is difficult, for sure, but not impossible. |
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furtakk
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I have not met any english teachers that can speak korean well but i have met plenty of foreigners who can. I have a lot of friends who study pretty regularly but regularly only means like 30 or so minutes a day (if that) and maybe 1 or 2 hours of class a week.
You will never be able to speak korean well if that is the limit of your study. It takes a lot of work but it is not impossible. Just ask any of the chinese, south american, african, russian, and other eastern europeans studying in korean at korean universities. |
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BoholDiver
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I am calling BS on all that. Korean is a simple language.
If someone is naturally not gifted with languages, I can understand that. But Korean is simple and it doesn't have many rules or exceptions as compared to English.
Within 6 months, I could hold a simple conversation. In 2 years I could express my mind in most situations.
I am currently studying Japanese and it is also not that hard, aside from the fact they use 3 alphabets. But the grammar is harder. |
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Css
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Location: South of the river
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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its not an easy language but those quotes make it sound far harder than it is.
2 years of study, several hours a day, should see you pretty damn good. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| BoholDiver wrote: |
I am calling BS on all that. Korean is a simple language.
If someone is naturally not gifted with languages, I can understand that. But Korean is simple and it doesn't have many rules or exceptions as compared to English.
Within 6 months, I could hold a simple conversation. In 2 years I could express my mind in most situations.
I am currently studying Japanese and it is also not that hard, aside from the fact they use 3 alphabets. But the grammar is harder. |
Both Korean and Japanese are easy for you to learn? You must be a linguistic genius. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Css wrote: |
its not an easy language but those quotes make it sound far harder than it is.
2 years of study, several hours a day, should see you pretty damn good. |
Ah, so you don't agree with this article?
| Quote: |
| the Korean language is generally considered the most secretly-guarded code system among the world's major languages. There is no way an "outsider," who is not born into this circle, can crack the code of the Korean language, no matter how long one devotes oneself to its mastery. Its grammar and syntax are capable of so much situational variation and impromptu adaptation that only the native can get the feel of the language. Anyone who is encouraged by the scientific claim and tries to learn the language soon finds that he is merely scratching the surface after years of devoted study. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2009/07/137_48728.html
Out of curiosity, how good is your Korean? |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| BoholDiver wrote: |
I am calling BS on all that. Korean is a simple language.
If someone is naturally not gifted with languages, I can understand that. But Korean is simple and it doesn't have many rules or exceptions as compared to English.
Within 6 months, I could hold a simple conversation. In 2 years I could express my mind in most situations.
I am currently studying Japanese and it is also not that hard, aside from the fact they use 3 alphabets. But the grammar is harder. |
Both Korean and Japanese are easy for you to learn? You must be a linguistic genius. |
The most influential innate factor in picking up a language is your age. language ability decreases quickly after say about age 6, after 70 there is almost no chance of picking up another language. Someone middle aged is really going to have to spend a lot of time and many years learning Korean to become fluent. Someone say about 18 years old will pick it up a lot quicker than someone in their 20's and 30's |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| The most influential innate factor in picking up a language is your age. |
Interesting. So from birth to death your ability to pick up another language deteriorates, especially if you weren't exposed to second language early on in life.
| Quote: |
| Our ability to effortlessly absorb a new language�any new language�begins to decline by age six, according to Robert DeKeyser, a professor of second-language acquisition at the University of Maryland. By the time we are 16, we have lost just about all hope of being able to speak a second language without a telltale accent, DeKeyser says. The reasons why children have a remarkable capacity to absorb new languages that adults generally lack are unclear. Some researchers studying the brain believe the answer may lie in a fundamental process by which grey matter develops. As we age, nerve fibers in our brain become sheathed in a protective coating made of fats and proteins. This coating, called myelin, boosts the speed of signals moving through the brain, but it also limits the potential for new connections. "It's as if you have a lot of tracks where people walked around the countryside and somebody came down and put asphalt on them," says Mike Long, who also teaches second-language acquisition at the University of Maryland. "Those roads are stronger and better, but they also limit possibility." In other words, adults find it difficult to alter the way they communicate because they become wired for their native tongue. |
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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Css wrote: |
its not an easy language but those quotes make it sound far harder than it is.
2 years of study, several hours a day, should see you pretty damn good. |
Ah, so you don't agree with this article?
| Quote: |
| the Korean language is generally considered the most secretly-guarded code system among the world's major languages. There is no way an "outsider," who is not born into this circle, can crack the code of the Korean language, no matter how long one devotes oneself to its mastery. Its grammar and syntax are capable of so much situational variation and impromptu adaptation that only the native can get the feel of the language. Anyone who is encouraged by the scientific claim and tries to learn the language soon finds that he is merely scratching the surface after years of devoted study. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2009/07/137_48728.html
Out of curiosity, how good is your Korean? |
I have to ask, did YOU read that article in full? It's talking about formal written Korean that even a lot of middle class Koreans can't understand. Not to mention it was written by a KT hack journalist.
My Korean is pretty basic, I'll admit, but I don't feel like it's impossible to get to a conversational level with it. Fluent? That's another story.
Hell four years of high school Spanish got me to at least a high conversational level. You mentioned you are a monolingual adult; have you ever studied another language?
Last edited by nukeday on Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
| I have to ask, did YOU read that article in full? |
Yes, I did. And I also read this one:
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| linguists and anthropologists the world over routinely list the Korean Language as one of the most difficult languages, if not the most difficult, to learn. |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2009/01/137_38687.html
| Quote: |
| As a blessing, the language has protected Korea's identity like a secret code. As a curse, it keeps Korea forever in the black hole of impenetrable oddness. |
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