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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Most evils are tolerated for one of two reasons: the situation demands it, or people are apathetic. I have little doubt that in the minds of most South Koreans, this is a case of the former. Remember, this is about more than simply having the men serve for a brief time. It's also about ensuring that every man in the nation has a basic level of training, ensuring that in an emergency they can bring a large force to bear much more quickly than they otherwise could.
I agree with you that it's detestable; all militaries are. But at least in South Korea's case, it's understandable why the people tolerate it. Their standard of living would drastically decrease under North Korea rule, as would their freedom. To them, it's simply worth the trade off. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
| Young engineers and scientists are exempt from being drafted in Korea. |
You are wrong on that. They may be given alternative service, like working for companies that cater to the army. |
An awful lot of guys get out of the military, and do some sort of community service instead. If you're below or above a certain height, have various physical ailments/ conditions, or you can prove that you can serve the country better in another capacity you'll be assigned to do something else.
I know of guys who did a stint at the post office, the police force, various government agencies etc. A gyopo friend who thought he'd avoid service by refusing to learn the language got ordered to pick trash on the roadside for a year or so instead. In 2006 there was a guy who did his service at my elementary school, as the janitor's assistant and my lackey( I don't think it was in his job description but my Korean was fairly limited, and he'd gone to school in Toronto for years) It didn't seem to be an isolated case, as all of my friends at other schools in the area had a guy making himself useful for whatever at their schools too. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Koreans support conscription? |
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| noraebang wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| noraebang wrote: |
Nobody in their right mind could actually believe the reason is for national security. Is this the best plan Korean tacticians can come up with: throw a massive wall of human bodies at the enemy? If this actually worked, then why is the US infinitely more powerful with less people in the military?
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You do realize the US has 1.4 million active military personnel, which makes it more than 2x SK's army. |
The US could wipe out North Korea with a single man pushing some buttons, and a support team for maintaining the equipment. One of their aircraft carriers could turn North Korea to dust. The population contained on a single aircraft carrier is less than 1.4 million people.
Which was my original point. Their money is being wasted by having it spread out over every person, rather than creating career soldiers who are adept when it comes time for battle.
What would you rather have, 100,000 scrawny guys who did basic training 15 years ago and are outfitted with a gun from the 60's, or 10 stealth bombers with well trained pilots capable of turning Pyeongyang into a crater? |
A question for the OP: Don't they pretty much have to?
Why would anybody in thier right minds completely rely on the USA? Look at Vietnam and Cambodia and also the US left North Korea to thier fate during the Korean war. Thier are too many people in the west that have this feeling that North Korea is JUST ANOTHER WAY and who are we to judge. That feeling especially arises when thier citizens start getting killed.
Truman was definately wrong about pulling out of Korea and Mccarthur may have been right given Mao and the horrific circumstances of the Northern regime. However I don't think nuclear weapons were necessary. Monsters like Mao and China should have no say in determining world affairs. "Let a thousand flowers blooom" didn't work they're capitalist now, but the poor especially in rural regions get nothing from the wealthy hypocritical government, they don't get decent medical care and sometimes no medical care at all. The west is actually more communist than they are. It will be good when the horrible Chinese regime fails and falls.
I don't think South Korea is armed with weapons from the 60's except for M16's. Have you seen the modern South Korean tanks? They occasionally show pictures of them in the newspapers. When I was teaching in Korea I would see A-10's flying over every week and I'm pretty sure those were Korean. They have quite a few f-15's and I pretty sure the soldiers are well trained. I am sure they have night vision goggles. Also despite of what happened to the Choenan thier navy ability is pretty good and I don't think North Korea could reach thier ship yards. The Koreans build very good ships, much better than what China puts out.
Last edited by young_clinton on Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blackjack
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: anyang
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
Has anyone any information about Concientcious Objection in Korea?
I've never heard a Korean say that it occurs here.
Any info appreciated. |
As far as i know you can conscientious object. However the time you would have spent in the miltary you get to spend in jail.
A think a few Mormons have ended up in jail |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Simple they are at war. A peace treaty has never been signed. Why does North Korea draft people? Explain logic of equating national service with slavery. I believe maybe it is just a rumour that there are still hostile actions going on betwen North and South Korea. If the people of South Korea support the draft how can it be slavery? Should there be armies and war. No but then there shouldnt be disease and there should be chocolate fountains and lakes of wine. It is a sad old world. Humanit y is disappointing to paraphrase Mark Twain. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| One other point. professional militaries are scary. they tend to become political, and loyal to the officer corp instead of the country. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Koreans support conscription? |
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| noraebang wrote: |
What would you rather have, 100,000 scrawny guys who did basic training 15 years ago and are outfitted with a gun from the 60's, or 10 stealth bombers with well trained pilots capable of turning Pyeongyang into a crater? |
Mind giving me a cost breakdown? |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| and he had hoped they'd stick him in the army so he would toughen up. |
even though this reason seems small, it is often talked about as an important reason as to why mandatory military service still exists. Korean boys are coddled until they are of age to serve. Serving in the military supposedly makes them men according to some of my Korean friends, and as much as they hate doing it, it is needed.
A lot of people get out of the service and perform cheap labour for the country. Kids with health problems are one category but don't forget the rich kids. With a simple phone call and maybe a stuffed white envelope rich kids get the cushy jobs working in IT etc etc. It is the poor kids that have more of a case for ending conscription because they are the ones getting beat and thrown in the mud. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Why do Koreans support conscription? |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| noraebang wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| noraebang wrote: |
Nobody in their right mind could actually believe the reason is for national security. Is this the best plan Korean tacticians can come up with: throw a massive wall of human bodies at the enemy? If this actually worked, then why is the US infinitely more powerful with less people in the military?
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You do realize the US has 1.4 million active military personnel, which makes it more than 2x SK's army. |
The US could wipe out North Korea with a single man pushing some buttons, and a support team for maintaining the equipment. One of their aircraft carriers could turn North Korea to dust. The population contained on a single aircraft carrier is less than 1.4 million people.
Which was my original point. Their money is being wasted by having it spread out over every person, rather than creating career soldiers who are adept when it comes time for battle.
What would you rather have, 100,000 scrawny guys who did basic training 15 years ago and are outfitted with a gun from the 60's, or 10 stealth bombers? |
If that were true, the US would have been out of Iraq and Afghanistan within weeks. You still need ground troops to get into the country and occupy it, control it and then hand it over to whoever. Only so much a bunch of missiles can do. And the US wouldn't nuke NK, because the political consequences of it. |
I think you are failing to realize the reality of war:
America put 100,000 troops in Iraq, when top American generals had said it would take 1,000,000 troops to get everything under wraps and not have all the crap that is occurring today. 1,000,000 troops is A LOT, and not many countries can muster that type of well trained force.
Yes, you need a ground force, but the other guy makes a very valid point: instead of having 100,000-500,000 conscripts, why not make the military an attractive career option and have well a well trained force with the latest tech and support? ATM one reason the American solder is so feared isn't because they have an M-16, Kevlar vest and some grenades: it is because they have some serious high tech support. I read a recent article on CNN which talked about how Apache helicopters are almost impossible for the enemy to take down, yet they rain down a hell of lot of armaments. When you have the best tanks, armored units, and air support, how can that compete with men?
I liken the argument of men vs technology to what we saw in WWI with ignorant British forces going up against German machine guns. Tech wins wars. |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| oldfatfarang wrote: |
Has anyone any information about Concientcious Objection in Korea?
I've never heard a Korean say that it occurs here.
Any info appreciated. |
Jehovah's witnesses don't do military service and go to jail. They are conscientious objectors. It is not good for their future careers unless they want to be a Jehovah's minister haha. |
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UknowsI
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| conrad2 wrote: |
| Young engineers and scientists are exempt from being drafted in Korea. |
You are wrong on that. They may be given alternative service, like working for companies that cater to the army. |
It's partially right. If they do a PhD in engineering or science (at certain universities?) the last 2 years of their PhD can be counted as their military service. Different people tell different stories about this all the time, but I have two friends who are taking advantage of this right now, so that's how it's working. |
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bobbyhanlon
Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Location: 서울
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Why do Koreans support conscription? |
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| noraebang wrote: |
To be a little emotionally loaded, Why do Koreans support the mass slavery of all of their young men at the most important time in their educations and careers?
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if you'd already been through that, its unlikely you'd want to see others getting away with not doing it! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Why do Koreans support conscription? |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| noraebang wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| noraebang wrote: |
Nobody in their right mind could actually believe the reason is for national security. Is this the best plan Korean tacticians can come up with: throw a massive wall of human bodies at the enemy? If this actually worked, then why is the US infinitely more powerful with less people in the military?
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You do realize the US has 1.4 million active military personnel, which makes it more than 2x SK's army. |
The US could wipe out North Korea with a single man pushing some buttons, and a support team for maintaining the equipment. One of their aircraft carriers could turn North Korea to dust. The population contained on a single aircraft carrier is less than 1.4 million people.
Which was my original point. Their money is being wasted by having it spread out over every person, rather than creating career soldiers who are adept when it comes time for battle.
What would you rather have, 100,000 scrawny guys who did basic training 15 years ago and are outfitted with a gun from the 60's, or 10 stealth bombers? |
If that were true, the US would have been out of Iraq and Afghanistan within weeks. You still need ground troops to get into the country and occupy it, control it and then hand it over to whoever. Only so much a bunch of missiles can do. And the US wouldn't nuke NK, because the political consequences of it. |
Wiping out a country and occupying it, are two different beasts. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Why do Koreans support conscription? |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| noraebang wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| noraebang wrote: |
Nobody in their right mind could actually believe the reason is for national security. Is this the best plan Korean tacticians can come up with: throw a massive wall of human bodies at the enemy? If this actually worked, then why is the US infinitely more powerful with less people in the military?
|
You do realize the US has 1.4 million active military personnel, which makes it more than 2x SK's army. |
The US could wipe out North Korea with a single man pushing some buttons, and a support team for maintaining the equipment. One of their aircraft carriers could turn North Korea to dust. The population contained on a single aircraft carrier is less than 1.4 million people.
Which was my original point. Their money is being wasted by having it spread out over every person, rather than creating career soldiers who are adept when it comes time for battle.
What would you rather have, 100,000 scrawny guys who did basic training 15 years ago and are outfitted with a gun from the 60's, or 10 stealth bombers? |
If that were true, the US would have been out of Iraq and Afghanistan within weeks. You still need ground troops to get into the country and occupy it, control it and then hand it over to whoever. Only so much a bunch of missiles can do. And the US wouldn't nuke NK, because the political consequences of it. |
Wiping out a country and occupying it, are two different beasts. |
Additionally, I doubt that there would be an Islamic counter insurgency in North Korea. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:17 am Post subject: |
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[quote]The US could wipe out North Korea with a single man pushing some buttons, and a support team for maintaining the equipment. One of their aircraft carriers could turn North Korea to dust. The population contained on a single aircraft carrier is less than 1.4 million people.
Which was my original point. Their money is being wasted by having it spread out over every person, rather than creating career soldiers who are adept when it comes time for battle.
What would you rather have, 100,000 scrawny guys who did basic training 15 years ago and are outfitted with a gun from the 60's, or 10 stealth bombers with well trained pilots capable of turning Pyeongyang into a crater?[/quote]
Too much time watching hollywood blockbuster war and action movies and playing war simulation computer games combined with far too little time reading and understanding war, politics, history, economics and dare I say , the real world = the passage quoted above.  |
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