Korean Job Discussion Forums

Joe Bradley · Joined: 05 May 2003

I work for a national university, and have been told that as of June 2002 all foreign employees may work there a maximum of three years. Is this true of all national universities, or is it simply an invention of *my* university to weed out undesirable employees?

kangnamdragon · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea

Sounds pretty strange.... Some professors have been there a long time.

just because · Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Location: Changwon - 4964

I know a girl who has worked at a national university for 9 years and they want her to work longer yet.

Sounds like bullcrap to me.

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

There are universities that use some arbitrary limits. Some limits are strictly applied to foreigners but not applied to Koreans. Some foreign professors may stay three years. There are some universities that use four or five year limits for foreign professors.

Remember this article excerpt
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html
Edited once by Harpeau @8:54pm, Tuesday. March 9, 2004.

buddy bradley · Joined: 24 Aug 2003 Location: The Beyond

Even stranger is the amalgamation of Joe Thanks and buddy bradley.

Gollum · Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Japan

Post this at www.efl-law.com, because there has been some discussion about this very thing.

According to EFL-LAW, a letter went out from some gov't office to Universities urging them to NOT renew contracts of foreigners after a set number of years.

The reason was blantantly trying to stop any chance of a foreigner gaining tenure at a University in Korea.

Why this all is is above my head, but I know the EFL law guy is gathering facts/information about this problem. Perhaps a case will be made some day soon, and this stuff will be challenged in court.

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

From Koreabridge Forums -> EFL Education -> EFL LAW
"Recently we have become aware of 5 cases of employees (teachers) who have worked for 4 or more years, with the same employer, NOT being renewed. (4 years, 2 x 7 years, 8 years, 13 years,)

...the Ministry has sent a directive to schools, universities, etc, that teachers with long service should not be re-employed. Those who have been told to date include University teachers, College teachers and some Epik teachers...it is a cynical attempt to prevent foreigners from getting Tenure should some enterprising teacher take the matter to court."
http://www.koreabridge.com/forums/index.php?s=3a11bf5acb1ea066f95691f43e581b51&showtopic=3343

Korean universities seem to follow a similar practice in Japanese universities.

Do not trust promises of tenure via "tenure track positions"
Tenure tracks, which last for three years and up, effectively put you through the same probation period as a contract. "Probation" might sound like a normal screening process if there was a standardized "up or out" tenure deadline. But there is none in Japan. In practice, few tenure tracks have actually ripened into tenure.

Common university tactics to avoid it have been 1) extending the 3-year probation period at the last minute, or 2) making life rough enough so that the faculty member leaves To see if tenure is likely at your institution, ask them how many tenured foreigners they have. If none, or only one or two tokeners, chances are that you will not get it. Do not think yourself exceptional.
A General Message For Educators Seeking A Job in the Japanese University System by David Alwinckle (Arudo Debito)
http://www.eltnews.com/guides/universities/universities1_1.shtml

TECO · Joined: 20 Jan 2003

JAPAN

This is old news in Japan.

Contracts in many universities do not get renewed after the 2nd or 3rd time. There's a cap on contract renewals.

No matter how good of an employee you are.

reasons for this have been mentioned above.

rok_the-boat · Joined: 24 Jan 2004

Everyone got booted out of my first univ at 4 years, the second at 2. They all have differnet rules.

desultude · Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject:

We have people at my university that have taught here for 6-8 years. One was not renewed this year, but I have been told that it was attitude and evaluations, which I believe. Just because someone is around a few years, doesn't mean that they are good, or cannot become bitter and develop a bad attitude. I support the aim of tenure (protect teachers from politics) but it does protect bad teachers sometimes.

I like my job, but I am concerned about unwritten age limits hurting me in a few years.

Alvin Stardust · Joined: 12 Nov 2003

Just been informed that my contract won't be renewed this year, although my office want me to continue! 'It's out of our hands, sorry! The big-wig says that teachers can only stay for a max' of 3 years from now on...' It actually would have been my 5th year at the same uni'. Personally, I think they like to have new blood so they can pay 'em less per month. Oh' well, never mind. It's time for a change anyway.........

Derrek · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Just tell everyone that you're not going to renew your E-2 with them because according to your evaluation, the school was not up to your educational standards.

Hhhahaa

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

I hope he has an E-1 visa if he is teaching at a university. An E-2 is usually used for hogwans (and institutes attached to universities).

Alvin Stardust wrote,
"I think they like to have new blood so they can pay 'em less per month..."

You may be right. I had a well-informed student tell me that Korean universities like to get new foreigners because they save the school money. And, students want "fresh English."

Ryst Helmut · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject:

We already talked about this...sorta....

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=56737&highlight=#56737

Shoosh!

Ryst