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Some need to learn the difference between FACT and OPINION.
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pangaea



Joined: 20 Dec 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pot, Kettle.
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smee18



Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand one hundred percent behind my comment:

LMMAO, senior, you just won't stop ...

"It's more expensive for a rich person to have kids than a poor person."

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

If you can't see why that comment makes you look like the DUMBEST mf around, you have some serious problems. The fact that you keep posting it like it vindicates you makes me laugh heartily, thusly:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
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Senior



Joined: 31 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smee18 wrote:
I stand one hundred percent behind my comment:

LMMAO, senior, you just won't stop ...

"It's more expensive for a rich person to have kids than a poor person."

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

If you can't see why that comment makes you look like the DUMBEST mf around, you have some serious problems. The fact that you keep posting it like it vindicates you makes me laugh heartily, thusly:

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah


Unfortunately you are wrong. And calling me mean names doesn't make that any less so.

Why do you take it so personally? It belies a serious lack of maturity.

I will try to spell it out to you in plain terms. It is relatively more expensive for a rich person to have a child than a poor person. Simply because the rich person has to give up more income than the poor person. You seriously don't see how that is the case? It's pretty elementary stuff.

Please try to be more polite in the future. Using swear words (especially directed at another person) is extremely unbecoming.
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mmstyle



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm, a whole thread about another thread. I know the original thread, so this is somewhat amusing. I can't believe it has gone on for 5 pages though.

For the record, what I have read some of NYC's posts, she's a reasonable poster (granted, I may have missed something), and is clearly willing to own up to mistakes-something I have had to do upon occasion, and I respect people who do that and keep it polite. I have bowed out of threads when they have become attacks.

Obviously, t it is pretty much impossible to have a reasonable debate on Dave's.
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Senior



Joined: 31 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pangaea wrote:
Pot, Kettle.


There is certainly an element of this.

However, all I do is state my case, and try to back it up with evidence as best I can. I don't always succeed, but I try to act in good faith. You will never see me call people silly names or insult their intelligence (unless they insult mine first). I believe my reality to be the best one, but I don't jam it down anyone's throat, or ridicule them for not agreeing with me.

Two posters in particular exemplify the opposite of everything I have said above. They insult and ridicule my position on certain matters, but refuse to offer any evidence for why I am wrong. I really take it to heart and carry it around all day long. Sometimes I lose sleep over it and I cry in the shower most mornings, because of it. Laughing
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mmstyle



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senior, why does a rich person have to give up income? This may mean that they choose to change their lifestyle, but it doesn't make it more expensive to raise said child. As in, their expenses are only higher if they purchase more expensive items or options.


Plenty of wealthy women have kids and give up nothing (might have to pay a nanny). Plenty of poor women have children, and as a consequence, give up (or if they are lucky, delay) the option for further education that could lead to a better paying job.

I will admit that maybe I just don't understand what you are referring to, and you could explain. But rich people don't have to give up income if they don't want to, and can raise their children with the same options as those with less money. What am I missing?
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smee18



Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, as expense is relative to income it is evidently more expensive for poor people to raise children. Sorry for being unbecoming, but you really are an idiot. Everything you post is mindless drivel. I take it personally because, in my opinion, you are a moral and intellectual coward, and the world is a worse place for having people like you in it. I look forward to your cut and pastes from wikipedia in response.
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Senior



Joined: 31 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmstyle wrote:
Hmmmm, a whole thread about another thread. I know the original thread, so this is somewhat amusing. I can't believe it has gone on for 5 pages though.


I'm having a blast

Quote:
For the record, what I have read some of NYC's posts, she's a reasonable poster (granted, I may have missed something), and is clearly willing to own up to mistakes-something I have had to do upon occasion, and I respect people who do that and keep it polite. I have bowed out of threads when they have become attacks.


Yea

Quote:
Obviously, t it is pretty much impossible to have a reasonable debate on Dave's.


I don't believe this to be the case. There are some epic threads on many of these issues. The serious folk just choose to stay out of them now because of folk like on this thread.

Luckily, I'm not that serious, so I get a kick out of wading into this stuff.
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Senior



Joined: 31 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smee18 wrote:
Well, as expense is relative to income it is evidently more expensive for poor people to raise children. Sorry for being unbecoming, but you really are an idiot. Everything you post is mindless drivel. I take it personally because, in my opinion, you are a moral and intellectual coward, and the world is a worse place for having people like you in it. I look forward to your cut and pastes from wikipedia in response.


How am I an intellectual coward? Because I try to use plain language, instead of pseudo intellectual, 200 word paragraphs with 50 references but no clear point? I feel sorry for you that you can become personally offended by something that someone posts on an anonymous message board. Your life must be extremely difficult.

It still costs the same amount to provide the basics for a child. Perhaps you are right that proportional to income, it is more expensive for a poor person to have a child, but in real terms (ie a dollar figure, including opportunity cost) it is significantly more expensive for a rich person to have children. Ignoring opportunity cost is probably one of the top 10 most common mistakes that decision makers, commit.
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Senior



Joined: 31 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmstyle wrote:
Senior, why does a rich person have to give up income? This may mean that they choose to change their lifestyle, but it doesn't make it more expensive to raise said child. As in, their expenses are only higher if they purchase more expensive items or options.


Well I suppose they don't HAVE to give up income (ie. quit their job). But, many women leave the work force.

Quote:
Plenty of wealthy women have kids and give up nothing (might have to pay a nanny). Plenty of poor women have children, and as a consequence, give up (or if they are lucky, delay) the option for further education that could lead to a better paying job.


Plenty, sure. But plenty leave the work force also.

Quote:
I will admit that maybe I just don't understand what you are referring to, and you could explain. But rich people don't have to give up income if they don't want to, and can raise their children with the same options as those with less money. What am I missing?


Sure, but many do.

Additionally, there are career costs to having children. They do have to stop working for SOME time. This has an effect on future income.

I'm certainly not explaining it that well. You cover this briefly in Econ 101 and in Labor Econ. I will try to dig up a reference later.
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mmstyle



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think a lot of threads really get bad. I can't site this at all, but I remember reading that you know a thread (on any site), gone on long enough, will eventually reference Hitler and Nazis. I think it was 2 days before I saw just such a thread here. It happens here a lot. I think the other thread could have been interesting, had it not degenerated. There are posters here that I respect a lot who I do not see engaging in this (thank you, Seoul in Corea and I am pretty sure, Peppermint).

I would like to know why you think it's more expensive for the rich to have kids, though.

Edited because you posted: I don't know what opportunity cost is, can you please explain?
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Senior



Joined: 31 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmstyle wrote:
Actually, I think a lot of threads really get bad. I can't site this at all, but I remember reading that you know a thread (on any site), gone on long enough, will eventually reference Hitler and Nazis. I think it was 2 days before I saw just such a thread here. It happens here a lot. I think the other thread could have been interesting, had it not degenerated. There are posters here that I respect a lot who I do not see engaging in this (thank you, Seoul in Corea and I am pretty sure, Peppermint).


It's called Godwin's Law. And it is a univeral truism of almost all debate. Someone will invoke the Nazis at some point.

Quote:
I would like to know why you think it's more expensive for the rich to have kids, though.

Edited because you posted: I don't know what opportunity cost is, can you please explain?


OC is the foregone value of the next best choice. If you make a choice, you can't do something else. Eg, if you go to Hawaii you can't go to Mexico. If you have children you have to give up at least some work time and therefore income. It's this "foregone" income that I was referring to when I said it is more expensive for rich people to have kids. They, generally, have to give up more income than poor people. This is why birth rates are flat in the developed world.
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mmstyle



Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: wherever

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senior, I can see that that would hold true for dual income families, especially in America, where there is no support or guarantee for your job, but it's certainly not universally true. (I can give at least one very specific example, but I am pretty sure you would not like it).


There are plenty of wealthy families wherein one adult does not work. Thus, having a child would cause no lose of income.

It would not hold true for families that are wealthy and do no choose to work, or do not need to work (ie, inherited wealth). There are a number of reasons that I can think of in which having a child if you are wealthy does not mean it is more expensive than if you are not.

Also, I think that relative cost (ie, if you are poor, a higher percentage of your income must be devoted to your child than if you are rich, just for the necessities) is, quite frankly, and more legitimate concern/consideration. I say this because of the way that you phrased your original statement.

A family with an income of $30,000 is going to have to "give up" more (have a lower standard of living) if they have a child than a wealthy family (what constitutes wealthy hasn't even been discussed). That is to say, I can't agree that "loss of income" means that something is more expensive/costs more. I think this is why a number of people disagreed with your statement.

Anyway.....is this rant of a thread even the right place for this discussion?
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balzor



Joined: 14 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that Senior and Seoulio were two socks battling it out...
hahahaha
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Seoulio



Joined: 02 Jan 2010

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senior wrote:
Seoulio wrote:
Senior wrote:
Seoulio wrote:


That and you still can not differentiate what an OPINION Is, and you are one of the people (over the span of month) ho motivated me to write this thread.


If there is more than one person finding a problem with you, don't you think it might be possible that the problem lies some where other than with those people?

Anyways, It's obvious you can't be reasoned with.

Later.


NO read my posts, I can be reasoned with, when shown reason.


I was pulling the same schtick as you in this post. But, you couldn't show enough reason to figure that out.

Don't bother responding because I'm so out of here.

Later.



No I caught it, I just didnt play along.

I am responding, you sure you wont again?. I mean you came onto this thread to start the same petty fight I thought was over, so now you are leaving? My heart is breaking, really
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