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balzor
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Opinion: this thread started with promise
Fact: that promise was not kept
J/K Both you guys need to chill, nothing mentioned in this thread is actually that important |
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pangaea
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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pangaea wrote:
Pot, Kettle. |
There is certainly an element of this.
However, all I do is state my case, and try to back it up with evidence as best I can. I don't always succeed, but I try to act in good faith. You will never see me call people silly names or insult their intelligence (unless they insult mine first). I believe my reality to be the best one, but I don't jam it down anyone's throat, or ridicule them for not agreeing with me.
Two posters in particular exemplify the opposite of everything I have said above. They insult and ridicule my position on certain matters, but refuse to offer any evidence for why I am wrong. I really take it to heart and carry it around all day long. Sometimes I lose sleep over it and I cry in the shower most mornings, because of it. |
Explanation appreciated but my comment was directed at the OP. I was feeling lazy at the moment and didn't feel like cutting and pasting. |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| The Goalie wrote: |
| Interesting how the anonymity of a forum like this makes the arguments more, rather than less, personal. The "I know are, but what am I?" nature of arguments like these two are having seems to indicate that they really believe something is at stake for them personally. Sort of reminds me of chicken fights or dog fights where these poor dumb creatures get all riled up and go at each other for the amusement of all the poor dumb people with too much time on their hands. Good fun, all in all. |
This is definitely the case, to a certain degree.
Part of it is, I really enjoy debating economics. It definitely started as this, but it has devolved into me trolling Seoulio, really. As he doesn't want to listen to anything I have to say, Whilst accusing me of exactly the same thing. |
if you really enjoy debating economics, couldn't you actually try, I don't know debating economics.
Saying "read this book explains it all" is not debate
Saying " I am right, you are wrong" isnt a debate
insisting facts are true when they are subjective at best is not debate
Using unrealted examples to prove an unrelated point is not a debate.
You could not even concede that capitalism is a bad system for most involved, and is detrimental to society on a grand scale ( not saying there are many better ones out there, but capitalism is by no mean "good")
When you respond like a politician answering a different question or addressing an unrelated point its kind of like the guy that punches you in the face so you forget about the pain in your foot.
I lsitened to what you say, but when you brely address my points and ignore the obvious, or argue the reverse of my position ( capitalsim causes huge pollution, - Well actually America is cleaner than other countries....... THATS AWESOME but capitalism STILL POLLUTES!!!!!!!!!!!)
I mean when this is how you aregue, then no I am not going to listen to you. If you can't even concede easilly true facts common sense knowledge AND ask me to post sources for them then no I am not going to discuss much with you on the actual issue.
YOu still not responding? |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| smee18 wrote: |
I stand one hundred percent behind my comment:
LMMAO, senior, you just won't stop ...
"It's more expensive for a rich person to have kids than a poor person."
HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
If you can't see why that comment makes you look like the DUMBEST mf around, you have some serious problems. The fact that you keep posting it like it vindicates you makes me laugh heartily, thusly:
HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah |
Unfortunately you are wrong. And calling me mean names doesn't make that any less so.
Why do you take it so personally? It belies a serious lack of maturity.
I will try to spell it out to you in plain terms. It is relatively more expensive for a rich person to have a child than a poor person. Simply because the rich person has to give up more income than the poor person. You seriously don't see how that is the case? It's pretty elementary stuff.
Please try to be more polite in the future. Using swear words (especially directed at another person) is extremely unbecoming. |
Define "rich"
If you live in America then your tax rate is often LOWER the more you make thanks to BUsh Dubya and his brilliant tax cuts.
OH so a poor guy wh makes LESS before tax is better off then a guy who makes WAY MORE after taxes.
Yep perfect sense.
Yep Id rather have 75 000 dollars and be taxed 20 percent than have 1 million and be taxed say 45 percent, id be so much better off, and so woul my children if this was the case.
And you are the guy who likes to debate economics. Shouldnt you have an elementary grasp of the fundamentals. MOre money after taxes is better than less money after taxes, tax rate is irrelevant |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulio wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| The Goalie wrote: |
| Interesting how the anonymity of a forum like this makes the arguments more, rather than less, personal. The "I know are, but what am I?" nature of arguments like these two are having seems to indicate that they really believe something is at stake for them personally. Sort of reminds me of chicken fights or dog fights where these poor dumb creatures get all riled up and go at each other for the amusement of all the poor dumb people with too much time on their hands. Good fun, all in all. |
This is definitely the case, to a certain degree.
Part of it is, I really enjoy debating economics. It definitely started as this, but it has devolved into me trolling Seoulio, really. As he doesn't want to listen to anything I have to say, Whilst accusing me of exactly the same thing. |
if you really enjoy debating economics, couldn't you actually try, I don't know debating economics. |
As a wise man once said "pot, kettle"
| Quote: |
| Saying "read this book explains it all" is not debate |
So what? It's not a purple jousting tunic either. Would it kill you to read a book?
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| Saying " I am right, you are wrong" isnt a debate |
Pot, kettle. Besides, how many times did I say that? I probably said it once for every six times you directly said, or implied it.
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| insisting facts are true when they are subjective at best is not debate |
Insisting with evidence is basically the definition of debate.
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| Using unrealted examples to prove an unrelated point is not a debate. |
When did I do that? Using anecdote and analogy is an important debating skill.
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| You could not even concede that capitalism is a bad system for most involved, and is detrimental to society on a grand scale ( not saying there are many better ones out there, but capitalism is by no mean "good") |
It's at least the least bad system. It has pulled millions of people out of grinding poverty in the last 200 years. That seems like a good thing to me.
I've pointed this out before and will do it again. you don't understand what capitalism is. You think that corporate bail out are capitalism. 'nuff said.
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| I lsitened to what you say, but when you brely address my points and ignore the obvious, or argue the reverse of my position ( capitalsim causes huge pollution, - Well actually America is cleaner than other countries....... THATS AWESOME but capitalism STILL POLLUTES!!!!!!!!!!!) |
The alternatives to capitalism pollute far, far more. Why do you think poor, less economically free countries are so polluted?
| Quote: |
| I mean when this is how you aregue, then no I am not going to listen to you. If you can't even concede easilly true facts common sense knowledge AND ask me to post sources for them then no I am not going to discuss much with you on the actual issue. |
Haha, can you hear yourself? The hypocrisy is astounding.
| Quote: |
| YOu still not responding? |
Ooga booga, wuzza wazza. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulio wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| smee18 wrote: |
I stand one hundred percent behind my comment:
LMMAO, senior, you just won't stop ...
"It's more expensive for a rich person to have kids than a poor person."
HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah
If you can't see why that comment makes you look like the DUMBEST mf around, you have some serious problems. The fact that you keep posting it like it vindicates you makes me laugh heartily, thusly:
HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah |
Unfortunately you are wrong. And calling me mean names doesn't make that any less so.
Why do you take it so personally? It belies a serious lack of maturity.
I will try to spell it out to you in plain terms. It is relatively more expensive for a rich person to have a child than a poor person. Simply because the rich person has to give up more income than the poor person. You seriously don't see how that is the case? It's pretty elementary stuff.
Please try to be more polite in the future. Using swear words (especially directed at another person) is extremely unbecoming. |
Define "rich" |
I did in one of my examples. Someone who makes a high income.
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| If you live in America then your tax rate is often LOWER the more you make thanks to BUsh Dubya and his brilliant tax cuts. |
So what? They still pay more in real terms. Ie 20% of100K is 20,000. 33% of 30K is 10,000. The rich still pay MORE taxes. (I have no idea what the actual marginal tax rate in the US are).
| Quote: |
OH so a poor guy wh makes LESS before tax is better off then a guy who makes WAY MORE after taxes.
Yep perfect sense. |
I never said he was better off.
| Quote: |
| Yep Id rather have 75 000 dollars and be taxed 20 percent than have 1 million and be taxed say 45 percent, id be so much better off, and so woul my children if this was the case. |
What is your point? We all like to make more money.
| Quote: |
| And you are the guy who likes to debate economics. Shouldnt you have an elementary grasp of the fundamentals. MOre money after taxes is better than less money after taxes, tax rate is irrelevant. |
Why are you talking about taxes now? |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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there you GO THANK YOU
"its the least bad system" something like this what I wanted you to say for like weeks.
I never said it was the worst, but it is NOT a good system, surely you can look around the world and see this. You have even asserted some of my facts as correct.
It is a mjorly bad system for a majority of the people, this was always my original point, and as I said, what real evidence would yu have me post for such common sense.
It is the least bad, cool, thanks you for admitting that, I fully agree ( although communism would be cool in my opinion if it was NOT for the government abuse of power which is inherent in the system sadly"
The world needs a new system though or I doubt we will survive much longer, especially when the oil runs out within 50 years.
Can we extend the olive branch of peace now? You literally just admited that my original comment was true it IS a bad system. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Seoulio"]there you GO THANK YOU
"its the least bad system" something like this what I wanted you to say for like weeks. |
This is a quote from Thatcher or Friedman or some other advocate of the market. It's essentially saying that Capitalism is in fast the BEST system, despite its perceived flaws.
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| I never said it was the worst, but it is NOT a good system, surely you can look around the world and see this. You have even asserted some of my facts as correct. |
Most of the problems I see are caused at their root, by govt.
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| It is a mjorly bad system for a majority of the people, this was always my original point, and as I said, what real evidence would yu have me post for such common sense. |
It is a majorly good system for a majority of people, what real evidence would you have me post for such common snese (well actually I could post a metric shit ton of evidence).
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It is the least bad, cool, thanks you for admitting that, I fully agree ( although communism would be cool in my opinion if it was NOT for the government abuse of power which is inherent in the system sadly" |
You do know that "least bad" essentially means best, right?
Communism doesn't work because central planning is fundamentally flawed. It is impossible for a small group of technocrats to continually adjust to the whims of millions of actors in the market. ie, what quantity of goods to provide at what price. The market can do this with astounding efficiency. You live in a massive city that can't produce enough food within its border to sustain the population, yet the exact right amount of food (and every other good and service) is available to every person almost 24 hours a day. This is nothing short of a miracle. It is impossible to plan this, it arises organically. It's more like an ecosystem than an artificial human construct.
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The world needs a new system though or I doubt we will survive much longer, especially when the oil runs out within 50 years. |
I agree. We need to break up the corporatist stranglehold on our markets and lives and allow the free market to be as free as possible.
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| Can we extend the olive branch of peace now? You literally just admited that my original comment was true it IS a bad system. |
Eat all the olives you want. You didn't understand what I said. not for the first time. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulio wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
FACT: I am the 7th poster to leave a message on this thread.
OPINION: This thread is pure drivel. |
correct, on the fact
OPinion- I agree |
LIES!!!!!!!!!! You were the eighth.
See, this is exactly what what's his name was crying about, y'all can't even get your facts straight. |
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pangaea
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Less filling!
Tastes great! |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulio wrote: |
| insisting facts are true when they are subjective at best is not debate |
Fact: Facts, by definition, are the truth. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Ladies, ladies. Calm down. Cat fights are hot and all, but there's a time and a place for this, and it's called a DVD Bang in Hongdae at 3am. |
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Kamal
Joined: 14 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: fundaes fundaes fundaes |
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| Enough of fundaes |
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Mariella713
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Ladies, ladies. Calm down. Cat fights are hot and all, but there's a time and a place for this, and it's called a DVD Bang in Hongdae at 3am. |
 You tell 'em, girl! |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| Seoulio wrote: |
| insisting facts are true when they are subjective at best is not debate |
Fact: Facts, by definition, are the truth. |
Not necessarily
Many book use "facts" that another source will refute and provide evidence for, so who is right?
Its a kind of factual subectivity.
However in many cases you are correct and I should have put "facts" in quotes
You also have a biased version of "the truth" depending on who writes the history books. Some facts are made up out of convenience ( Columbus dicovering America, even though thousands of people had lived there for centuries, having "discovered" it centuries before. History also for the most part reveres them even though there is proof he was a raping slave trader who slaughtered an entire race of people on the island of Haiti when they refused to be slaves for the spanish)
There has also been some talk in the last few decades that a number of Edison's inventions were actually Stolen from Nikola Tesla, and that TEsla invented a number of items before others did, he just didnt get the patents.
So I don't really agree that ALL facts are the truch by defnition, they should be, but out boas creeps in on a number of our "facts"
They are the most ( in many cases) a half truth or part of the truth |
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