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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: North Korea - Pyongyang and the Mass Games |
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| isisaredead wrote: |
| samd wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Beeyee wrote: |
| thegreg52 wrote: |
| isisaredead wrote: |
| thegreg52 wrote: |
| The Mass Games are supposed to be the most incredible thing to behold in person. |
far be it from me to be self-righteous, but why would you support that? |
Because I'm a traveller. I want to see as much of the world as possible. |
+1
I've been considering to go there almost every summer and this year might just be the right time. Ignore the 'holier than thou' attitude I have seen amongst some posters on here regarding this issue. At the end of the day, you will experience something that very, very few people outside of North Korea have ever seen.
The $2000-odd it costs will not make a blind bit of difference. It is hardly 'supporting the regime'. |
Could that not be said about nearly any experience then? I mean, seriously, you could excuse almost any nastiness by saying it's an experience something that very, very few people have.
It boils down to an individual choice, but perhaps if you spent that same amount of money helping people flee North korea, you might have an equally unique experience. |
The reverse is also true - you could find a moral reason not to buy almost anything or go almost anywhere.
It's also possible that simply being there and having North Koreans be exposed to you is more effective in exacting regime change than contributing a couple of thousand dollars towards the massive sum that a single North Korean refugee needs to pay to make it out of North Korea and into a safe country. |
ha ha, right - i'm sure seeing some fat american sitting in the crowd, waving their little arms in the air saying "it's ok, i'm a TRAVELER!" (and honestly, what the hell does that mean? you go on a plane to other countries to see stuff? sounds like more catch-phrase ego-driven masturbation to me) makes a world of difference to your average north korean. |
It's not ridiculous at all, it's an argument used at the highest levels. You're obviously totally unfamiliar with the debate about travel to the North - do some research first and then come back to this thread. |
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isisaredead
Joined: 18 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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just because it's an "argument used at the highest levels" doesn't mean it's a good one.
your response was typical of the holier-than-though attitude most people who think they know what they're talking about have on this subject.
learn some critical reasoning and logic skills, then come back to this thread. |
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thegreg52
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: |
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I just wanted some info. Sorry this turned into an argument.
For the record, I'm not fat. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: North Korea - Pyongyang and the Mass Games |
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| samd wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| samd wrote: |
| It's also possible that simply being there and having North Koreans be exposed to you is more effective in exacting regime change than contributing a couple of thousand dollars towards the massive sum that a single North Korean refugee needs to pay to make it out of North Korea and into a safe country. |
you'd be surprised
http://www.linkglobal.org/
consider getting involved. |
Nice link, thanks CC. I will get involved. |
Glad to hear it, man. I know that they were supportin safe houses in N China for some time, but I've been out of the loop and am not sure of their current activities.
Either way, I just wanted to throw it out there to show people that there are other options.
Check out this guy's story who pretty much did exactly that - Escaping North Korea by Mike Kim (search on FB) |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| We could also argue that people who oppose the North Korean regime shouldn't visit China or Laos, seeing as the governments of these two countries have an agreement with the N.Koreans to send defectors back to life in the gulag or possibly death. However, most travellers would go probably go to these countries. Laos is, I'm told, particularly popular with backpackers due to the low costs there. I'd go to N.Korea if I had the chance. |
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fergalreid
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| What's the story with residents in SK visiting NK in terms of legality? |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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I just got my ticket booked for Saturday August 7th 
10 nights in North Korea....can't wait  |
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Kaypea
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Why would a vacation to North Korea even be fun?
You're not allowed to go anywhere.
You'll be fed a lot of food and you'll probably feel guilty about it, but whenever I see pictures of the NK food it looks like the public school lunch, in fancy little gold bowls.
There's no nature.
No bikinis babes for the dudes. As a straight woman, I can't even imagine the dearth of sexiness for me.
No shopping.
The norebangs just have crappy patriotic chosun songs.
I didn't even mention the general feeling of death. I would never even visit the DMZ tunnels. It's just too scary and sad!
Not to judge people who are going or who have gone, I just really can't see the appeal. |
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DeMayonnaise
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:09 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the above...but to each his own. No books or MP3 player. What are you supposed to do on your down time or on bus trips?
Anyways, what are the Mass Games? Some sort of uber-communist we-love-the-dear-leader game?
Also, how much is the trip?
And can Americans go? I imagine they don't like us very much. |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DeMayonnaise wrote: |
| Also, how much is the trip? |
I paid 2300 Euros for the ten day trip. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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I was taught at university that tourism was certainly a factor in Spain democratizing. If NKs make a profit from tourism they'll want to expand it; if more people come there'll likely be more interaction with real NKs. You would hope this might create impetus for reform. Ideologically, you can always argue for interaction instead of isolation as well...
Anyway... are you flying in/out or Pyongyang? Was there any option to go overland through NK? I would love to do that. |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| RufusW wrote: |
| Anyway... are you flying in/out or Pyongyang? Was there any option to go overland through NK? I would love to do that. |
Flying in from Beijing with Air Koryo and taking the train out. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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The train goes direct Pyongyang to Beijing? How long is that ride? I presume there's no southern entry/exit for foreigners.
Make sure you take lots of photos and post the results here, we're all interested. |
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DeMayonnaise
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Beeyee wrote: |
| DeMayonnaise wrote: |
| Also, how much is the trip? |
I paid 2300 Euros for the ten day trip. |
You could live like a king for about 4 months on a beautiful beach in Thailand for that much. But whatever, if you want to blow your money that way, go for it. That just sounds unbelievably expensive for me.
And since nobody answered...What are the mass games? |
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Beeyee
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| DeMayonnaise wrote: |
| Beeyee wrote: |
| DeMayonnaise wrote: |
| Also, how much is the trip? |
I paid 2300 Euros for the ten day trip. |
You could live like a king for about 4 months on a beautiful beach in Thailand for that much. But whatever, if you want to blow your money that way, go for it. That just sounds unbelievably expensive for me.
And since nobody answered...What are the mass games? |
Well its 10 nights in a 4 star hotel with all transport, meals, entry to sights etc included. I've done beaches in Thailand and the like, I want to do something totally different.
Here is some information about the mass games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_games
I'll also be attending a big celebration in Kim Il Sung square to commemorate the independence from Japanese rule. |
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