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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Just go to any inner city school, and you will see what I mean (I'm sure you already do). Those poor kids, especially, are failing anyway. |
Are they failing because the schools are bad or are the schools failing because the students are bad.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=24049
If you put inner city poor from America in Singaporean, German or Finnish schools would they then perform like Singaporeans, Germans and Finns? If you did the opposite, and filled the inner city American schools with Finns, Germans and Singaporeans, would those students then start to fail? Here's the answer:
http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100624-28075.html
Ok. It's the same everywhere. Everywhere. America needs to stop fussing about the achievement gap and move on to other things. Not being able to complete AP calculus with an A+ doesn't mean that one is unable to be a productive member of society. Not everybody is cut out for university. We're all exactly equal in rights and worth. We're probably not equal under the hood, and different cultures produce dramatically different outcomes.
That's a long winded way to say that vouchers won't do jack. They're useful to crush the teacher unions though. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Just go to any inner city school, and you will see what I mean (I'm sure you already do). Those poor kids, especially, are failing anyway. |
Are they failing because the schools are bad or are the schools failing because the students are bad.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=24049
If you put inner city poor from America in Singaporean, German or Finnish schools would they then perform like Singaporeans, Germans and Finns? If you did the opposite, and filled the inner city American schools with Finns, Germans and Singaporeans, would those students then start to fail? Here's the answer:
http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100624-28075.html |
I agree with the point you're making. I just have to say that there are definitely under-performing schools in those countries you mentioned. I worked with school groups when I lived in Singapore and there were a few schools that were markedly worse than others, and while not close to american inner city schools, were not performing to high levels. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Senior wrote: |
| Just go to any inner city school, and you will see what I mean (I'm sure you already do). Those poor kids, especially, are failing anyway. |
Are they failing because the schools are bad or are the schools failing because the students are bad.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=24049
If you put inner city poor from America in Singaporean, German or Finnish schools would they then perform like Singaporeans, Germans and Finns? If you did the opposite, and filled the inner city American schools with Finns, Germans and Singaporeans, would those students then start to fail? Here's the answer:
http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100624-28075.html |
I agree with the point you're making. I just have to say that there are definitely under-performing schools in those countries you mentioned. I worked with school groups when I lived in Singapore and there were a few schools that were markedly worse than others, and while not close to american inner city schools, were not performing to high levels. |
Of course. Raffles sends about half the graduating class to Ivy schools in the US every year. It would be impossible for every school to achieve that. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
What Fox is getting at is called externalities, and is the biggest thing that Rand and her followers overlook. Many things have indirect effects. We all benefit from a better educated populace for example. Just because you don't see the benefit, or the negative aspects, of a government action directly doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. |
I hope you do realize that you could use that as an argument for any establishment no matter how maladaptive it is. You can say that Islam in the middle east benefits the people in indirect ways whether you notice them or not. You can say the same for Christianity in the US as well. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
What Fox is getting at is called externalities, and is the biggest thing that Rand and her followers overlook. Many things have indirect effects. We all benefit from a better educated populace for example. Just because you don't see the benefit, or the negative aspects, of a government action directly doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. |
I hope you do realize that you could use that as an argument for any establishment no matter how maladaptive it is. You can say that Islam in the middle east benefits the people in indirect ways whether you notice them or not. You can say the same for Christianity in the US as well. |
Of course, I'm not stupid. Islam in the middle east benefits people in direct ways as well, as does Christianity, what are you trying to get at? |
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