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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: A changing tone in the immigration debate |
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Neo-con David Frum:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/03/frum.immigration.education/index.html?hpt=C2
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Washington (CNN) -- When Arizona police ask suspected illegal immigrants for IDs, they are protecting your grandchildren's economic future.
Three years ago, ETS -- the people who administer the SAT -- released an alarming study. It combined information on test scores with demographic trends to predict that the U.S. work force of 2030 would be less literate, less skilled and worse paid than the U.S. work force of 1990.
ETS reported: "(B)y 2030 the average levels of literacy and numeracy in the working-age population will have decreased by about 5 percent while inequality will have increased by about 7 percent. Put crudely, over the next 25 years or so, as better-educated individuals leave the work force they will be replaced by those who, on average, have lower levels of education and skill. Over this same period, nearly half of the projected job growth will be concentrated in occupations associated with higher education and skill levels. This means that tens of millions more of our students and adults will be less able to qualify for higher-paying jobs."
Why?
One word: Immigration.
Since 1970, America's largest source of immigrants has been Latin America, especially Mexico. More than half of these Latino immigrants lack a high school diploma.
Compare the U.S. experience with Canada's. More than half of all immigrants to Canada possess a university degree. Half of all Canada's Ph.D.s are foreign-born.
Why does America choose poorly educated immigrants? The short answer: America does not choose them. They choose themselves.
In the last decade, half of all the immigrants to the United States arrived illegally. Even many of the legal arrivals gained entry courtesy of relatives who originally slipped into the country against the law, then somehow regularized themselves.
By contrast, Canada (a country of 1/10 the U.S. population that takes proportionately many more immigrants than the United States) allows almost no illegal immigration.
The result: While immigration has enhanced the average skill level of the Canadian population, it has detracted from the average skill level of the U.S. population.
Many Americans carry in their minds a family memory of upward mobility, from great-grandpa stepping off the boat at Ellis Island to a present generation of professionals and technology workers. This story no longer holds true for the largest single U.S. immigrant group, Mexican-Americans.
Stephen Trejo and Jeffrey Groger studied the intergenerational progress of Mexican-American immigrants in their scholarly work, "Falling Behind or Moving Up?"
They discovered that third-generation Mexican-Americans were no more likely to finish high school than second-generation Mexican-Americans. Fourth-generation Mexican-Americans did no better than third.
If these results continue to hold, the low skills of yesterday's illegal immigrant will negatively shape the U.S. work force into the 22nd century.
The failure to enforce the immigration laws in the 1990s and 2000s means that the U.S. today has more poorly skilled workers, more poverty and more workers without health insurance than it would have generated by itself.
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Progressive John Judis
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=24049
| Quote: |
End State: Is California Finished?
Mr. John Judis The New Republic, October 26, 2009
At the gathering, held in a plush conference room, one of the experts projected tables and graphs comparing various states. It was there that I had my own "AHA!" moment. The states with thriving educational systems were generally northern, predominately white, and with relatively few immigrants: the New England states, North Dakota, and Minnesota. That bore out the late Senator Patrick Moynihan's quip that the strongest factor in predicting SAT scores was proximity to the Canadian border. The states grouped with California on the lower end of the bar graph were Deep South states like Mississippi and Alabama with a legacy of racism and with a relative absence of new-economy jobs; states like West Virginia that have relatively few jobs for college grads; and states like Nevada, New Mexico, and Hawaii that have huge numbers of non-English-speaking, downscale immigrants whose children are entering the schools. California clearly falls into the last group, suggesting that California's poor performance since the 1960s may not have been due to an influx of bad teachers, or the rise of teachers' unions, but to the growth of the state's immigrant population after the 1965 federal legislation on immigration opened the gates. |
Corporatist/futurist Peter Schwartz:
http://www.slate.com/id/2223962
| Quote: |
| This morning, in a conference room full of fellow forecasters, Schwartz happily plays the emcee for the end of America. He speaks more quickly and authoritatively than anyone else, and he's the one patrolling the line between what's crazy enough to destroy the United States and what's just plain crazy. His first idea: racial warfare. By 2050, whites will no longer be a majority in the United States and Hispanics will make up an estimated 29 percent of the population. "Most violence is committed by males 18 to 35," Schwartz explains. "Now picture a very large, low-employed Hispanic population of males not too pleased with their lot or their ability to control a white-dominated world. � That population then becomes violent and disruptive. And now you get into racial and identity politics�it's all those illegal immigrants we let across the border." Add in a flailing economy, mega-droughts in the Southwest, and the "Colombianization" of Mexico and you've got The Road Warrior crossed with an unusually rabid episode of Lou Dobbs Tonight. |
Now contrast with Canada:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/06/17/who-doesnt-get-into-canada/
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Who doesn�t get into Canada
Jun 17, 2010 by Charlie Gillis
Midway through last summer, when much of official Ottawa was away at the cottage, a revealing document landed on the desk of Canada�s top immigration bureaucrat, deputy minister Neil Yeates. Prosaically titled �Social and Economic Outcomes of Second Generation Youth,� the four-page memo showed little regard for the political correctness typical of government correspondence. �Chinese and South Asians are the most likely to have university degrees or higher, and to be employed in high-skilled occupations,� observed the summary, which was prepared by departmental bureaucrats and released recently through access to information. Second-generation youth of Caribbean and Latin American origin don�t fare so well, the memo went on; they tend to obtain lower levels of education than native-born Canadian kids and wind up in less skilled jobs.
To Richard Kurland, the Vancouver-based immigration lawyer who dug it up, the document confirmed �what everybody in the business has known for a long time.� For years, the government has been gathering data on the performance of newcomers and their children based on ethnicity, he notes, and while immigration officials deny they use information to identify the best countries from which to recruit, the numbers tell a different story. Since 1999, China and India have been the top two source countries for immigrants to Canada, averaging about 60,000 landings per year, while the number coming from the Caribbean has fallen sharply. Immigration from the West Indies had fallen 45 per cent below levels seen in the early 1990s, according to figures compiled by Statistics Canada, when more than 16,000 from that region were entering the country annually.
And these days, equipped with new legislative powers, the government is able to pick and choose more aggressively than ever. Bill C-50, passed in late 2008, allows the minister to delay the processing of applications from specific missions abroad in order to speed those from others, and so far the results have been stark. The average wait time for someone wishing to bring a spouse into the country through Kingston, Jamaica has ballooned to 15 months, fully three times the processing time in 2006. A similar application lodged in New Delhi takes just six months.
It would be simplistic to call this profiling. China and India are better represented in Canada�s intake statistics, a senior government official told Maclean�s, because they are rich in skilled, educated people willing to emigrate�not because of ethnic traits, real or imagined: �It�s a matter of basic supply and demand.� As for the memo, a spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Canada would say only that it reflects the department�s ongoing concern for groups �experiencing less positive outcomes from an immigration, settlement and a multiculturalism perspective.�
Still, both the memo and numbers reflect a preoccupation that has come to define the Harper government�s approach to immigration: which applicants offer the greatest long-term value�now or a generation or two down the line? In speech after speech, Immigration Minister Jason Kenney points up pressures wrought by the country�s low birth rate and advancing economy, noting that 100 per cent of Canada�s labour growth will have to come from outside the country by 2016. Under the circumstances, he says, there is little place for electorally driven immigration, in which governments endlessly expanded family reunification quotas in return for goodwill at voting time. �The standard Liberal electoral strategy in the past three decades has been a kind of shameless pandering to immigrant communities,� Kenney charges in an interview. �It didn�t work. They over-promised and under-delivered.�
It all sounds well and good: a system that emphasizes merit rather than familial connection or crass politics. But recruiting 250,000 immigrants per year, as Ottawa hopes to do for the foreseeable future, will require sweeping, some would say un-Canadian, judgments. Do some countries offer better immigrants, on average, than others? Whose children do better? What, exactly, do we mean by �better�? Deciding who gets into the country has arguably never been so important. And rarely has it been so hard.
The idea that we might goose our economy with strategic immigration isn�t new, of course. Clifford Sifton�s �stalwart peasant in a sheepskin coat� was an early 1900s version of today�s �designer immigrant��an applicant in, say, her late 20s, with a graduate degree and $300,000 in savings. Yet the latter half of the century saw waves of newcomers enter through the country�s other gateway: programs allowing those already here to sponsor family members from abroad. Tradesmen who flooded in from southern Europe in the �50s and �60s sponsored their spouses and children, as did women who had arrived from Jamaica, Haiti and Trinidad to work as housekeepers. By 1976, nearly 10 per cent of the country�s immigrants were coming from the Caribbean, though the region represented about 0.6 per cent of the world�s population.
...
Kenney�s break with this pattern has been one of tone as much as substance: while he talks up the importance of economic immigration, he�s cultivated his own strong ties with ethnic groups and maintained family-class immigration targets at or near previous levels. Bill C-50, however, allows Kenney to move with a freedom his Liberal predecessors would have envied, fast-tracking applicants in 38 high-demand occupations�from petroleum engineers to hotel managers�while effectively shutting off the tap from parts of the world awash in family-class applications. Caribbean, Latin American and African candidates appear to have been hit hardest. Canadian-based parents who apply to the immigration post in Nairobi to bring over their children are told they must wait three years, nearly double the projected wait in 2006. In Guatemala, the delay is up 63 per cent during the same period, to 23 months, while wait times for Asian and Pacific countries have grown only marginally.
...
Yet even critics like Sgro acknowledge the need to �get it right� as Canada enters the post-baby-boom economic era, with a birth rate of 1.66 and a host of entitlement programs and pensions to pay for. It is no less a challenge than the one government faced at the turn of the century, when it set out to settle the West, observes Alan Simmons, the author of a forthcoming history on immigration to Canada. But now, as a free-trading nation in a knowledge economy, he says, we would �like to recruit only the perfect designer immigrants,� and that means leaning on the narrow band of countries that have them in surplus. It also means pinching the flow from countries where the education system is lacking, or money is scarce.
It�s a far cry from our fondest self-image as a haven for the lowly, who yearn for a better life. Years ago, during a cross-country train trip, Maclean�s journalist Rae Corelli summoned a romantic image of Canada�s French and English founders leaving �a key under the mat for dreamers from other lands.� The key is still there, of course. But as we weigh an uncertain future, we�re getting a lot more picky about whom we invite to use it.
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Who and what America will be in the future depends on who decides to show up. I do not support the numbers that Canada imports but at least they're being selective about it. Canada is becomming higher skilled and the US lower skilled. The two states are diverging profoundly. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:08 am Post subject: |
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It is obvious what the US should do: follow Australia and Canada's models for immigration. It wont happen though because of domestic politics. No Democrat is going to win office in a border state by supporting a crackdown on illegal immigration.
And while there might be immigration "reform", it won't stop the flow of immigrants from Latin America. If anything, it will just legalize and/or legitimize their migration. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Changing tone? Since when does a sizable plurality even support illegal immigration?
America has 11 million who have entered without inspection. How do you enforce immigration laws against 11 million people? Even if the Arizona law were replicated in all other 49 states, you still wouldn't get adequate enforcement. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Changing tone? Since when does a sizable plurality even support illegal immigration? |
You can go ahead and notice something about the first three articles. A neo-con (they've always been for open borders) and a progressive (who had an aha moment). A realization is happening among those who have opinions that matter. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:23 am Post subject: |
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More on Canada:
http://www.jasonkenney.com/EN/4961/113894
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New Rules Aim to Strengthen the Value of Canadian Citizenship
Ottawa, June 10, 2010 � Today, Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism Minister Jason Kenney introduced legislation that would streamline the citizenship revocation process, crack down on crooked citizenship consultants and better protect the value of Canadian citizenship.
�Canadian citizenship is highly valued around the world and today we are taking steps to ensure it stays that way,� said Minister Kenney. �These changes will help prevent citizenship fraud. As promised in the Speech from the Throne, these amendments will streamline the process to take citizenship away from those who have acquired it by fraud, including by concealment of their war crimes. And it would take decision-making away from politicians and give it to the courts.�
The full package of amendments would strengthen the process of applying for citizenship and crack down on citizenship fraud. Bill C-XX: Strengthening the Value of Canadian Citizenship Act proposes to:
* Add legal authority to regulate citizenship consultants and to crack down where they help people gain citizenship fraudulently, in line with the recently proposed amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act � The Cracking Down on Crooked Consultants Act - aimed at immigration consultants.
* Increase the penalties for citizenship fraud to a maximum of $100,000 or up to five years in prison or both.
* Strengthen citizenship residence requirements to specify in the law that people applying for citizenship would have to be physically present in Canada for three of the previous four years.
* Improve the government�s ability to bar criminals, including violent foreign criminals, from becoming Canadian citizens.
* Streamline the revocation and removal process and make revocation more transparent by shifting the decision making on revocations from the Governor in Council to the Federal Court.
* Ensure that the law supports the implementation of the first generation limit to passing on citizenship, ensure that the law does not unintentionally bar applicants who are eligible for citizenship, and ensure that the children of people serving Canada aboard � children of Crown servants � are not disadvantaged by their parent�s service to Canada and are able to pass on citizenship to their children.
�Canadian citizenship is more than a legal status, more than a passport,� said Minister Kenney. �We expect citizens to have an ongoing commitment, connection and loyalty to Canada.� |
Ok, I don't want to do the whole "in Canada" thing. But reform is impossible even when dealing with hostile parties. Kenny worked with separatists and the socialist NDP on this and got a pretty darn good bill, all things considered.
http://www.canadaeast.com/news/article/1088740
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| OTTAWA - The Harper government has salvaged its faltering refugee reform legislation by working out a deal of its own with the "socialists and the separatists." |
If Harper can work with French separatists and declared socialists, surely Obama can swing a workable deal with fellow corporatists? |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
And while there might be immigration "reform", it won't stop the flow of immigrants from Latin America. If anything, it will just legalize and/or legitimize their migration. |
Yes, exactly. |
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Arthur Dent
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Location: Kochu whirld
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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If it includes fingerprinting for new immigrants and doesn't block other nations from fingerprinting us when abroad then it ain't worth shit.
As an aside, most of our separatists and socialists are not nearly as extreme as in other countries. Not surprising that the separatists would cooperate with this. They have more to lose with new immigrants.
Also, if you're an MP in Canada, you're going to get tired of all the blocking, and even if you don't, you'll have a hard time justifying sitting on your hands to your local electorate.
A little more surprising coming from the socialists, but then they haven't been extreme since the early part of the last century. They know Canadians won't buy it it. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/immigration/article/828866--ottawa-caps-number-of-skilled-immigrants
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Ottawa caps number of skilled immigrants
No more than 20,000 applications to reduce backlog
The federal government will cap at 20,000 annually the number of visa applications from skilled immigrants in an attempt to reduce the backlog.
Immigration applicants must also submit proof of proficiency in one of Canada�s two official languages through a mandatory test, according to new instructions released Friday by Immigration Minister Jason Kenney. Until now, some applicants were allowed to submit a written declaration testifying to their language ability. For example, exemptions could be granted to those who were educated in English or French.
�Only test results from a third-party language testing agency . . . will be accepted,� the instructions say. Kenney will officially announce the changes Saturday in Toronto.
The approved language tests include the International English Language Testing System (IELTS) and Test d��valuation de fran�ais (TEF). The language requirement also applies to applicants under the Canada Experience Class.
As part of the changes, the number of occupations eligible for the federal skilled worker program has also been reduced from 38 to 29.
Due to an oversupply in the job market, 20 of the original 38 job categories have been removed, including managers in finances, computer and information systems, health care and construction, as well as university professors and college and vocational instructors.
They are being replaced with 11 new occupations: social workers, psychologists, dental hygienists and therapists, pharmacists, dentists, architects, biologists and related scientists, insurance adjusters and claims examiners, primary industry production managers (except those in agriculture) and professions in business services and management.
Applicants must have one year of continuous full-time or equivalent paid work experience in at least one of the occupations to qualify.
The immigration department will also limit the number of applications in each occupation to no more than 1,000; the applications will be processed on a first-come-first-served basis. These instructions and restrictions are effective until June 30, 2011.
Kenney introduced his first instructions in February 2008 to reduce the ever-growing immigration backlog by restricting the qualifying occupations, but applications kept coming. Critics have said the backlog appears to be re-emerging despite those measures.
Based on an analysis of department data by immigration lawyer Richard Kurland earlier this year, the average processing time from all Canadian visa posts is 7 � years, with 600,000 people in the queue for the 80,055 skilled immigrant visas granted in 2010. |
The total numbers are still way too high. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: |
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This is interesting:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/time-to-lead/multiculturalism/conservative-immigrants-boost-tory-fortunes/article1738150/?cmpid=rss1
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Conservative immigrants boost Tory fortunes
Immigrants used to be Liberal-leaning but a new generation is bringing traditional values
On a cold Sunday in late 2005, in church, Helen Poon's life collided with Canada's new political reality.
A year earlier, Ms. Poon had moved from Hong Kong to Markham, a heavily immigrant suburban city on the edge of Toronto. At her Cantonese-language Protestant church she was surprised to find politics being preached from the pulpit.
"The pastor asked the congregation to support the Conservatives because they're opposed to same-sex marriage and abortion," she recalls. "They said same-sex marriage is not God's law."
A tectonic shift is reshaping Canada's political landscape. A new immigrant-friendly Conservative message and a new, more conservative immigrant are finding each other, shaking the once-ironclad bond between new Canadians and the Liberal Party. Whether the Conservatives can continue to exploit this shift, or the Liberals can arrest it, will determine the fate of the two political parties in this decade.
On a deeper level, the effectiveness of these wedge issues raises the possibility that immigration, and the importation of more traditional homeland values, is shifting Canadian attitudes.
Markham was one of three federal ridings in Greater Toronto with large numbers of immigrant voters that switched from the Liberals to the Conservatives in the 2008 election. In that election the Conservatives scored new wins in six ridings with visible minority populations of 20 per cent or higher. (Visible minority statistics tend to reflect the attitudes of more recent immigrants, since most immigrants now come from outside Europe, and only 16 per cent of visible minority adults were born in Canada.) In other key ridings in both the Toronto and Vancouver areas, the Conservatives have the Liberals running scared.
A survey of visible minorities and immigrants done by the Canadian Election Study shows both groups tend to be more conservative than the rest of Canada on bedrock Canadian issues. Both groups, for example, are more likely to say it should be possible to pay for medical treatment and that getting an abortion should be more difficult. Visible minorities, a category that's 84 per cent immigrant, are more likely to support private hospitals, lower taxes and paying parents individually rather than funding daycare.
Thirteen-year old Cowin Poon, with his mother, Helen Poon at his side, works at his tie while preparing to go to Air Cadets
But it's not all tilting to the right. On most other issues in the survey, such as cutting welfare spending, opposing the death penalty, having troops in Afghanistan or spending more on defence, both immigrants and visible minority groups are to the left of the Canadian population.
Myer Siemiatycki, a politics professor at Ryerson University, said it's important to remember attitudes are constantly shifting on both sides. Immigrants are changed by the ideas they encounter in Canada, and to a lesser extent Canada is changed by the attitudes of its immigrants.
"When newcomers come to Canada they bring with them homeland values and traditions, but Canada is not a blank slate. We have a whole bunch of ways - from school to television to the law - that send signals of what the values of this society are," Prof. Siemiatycki said.
How those issues are ultimately weighed at the ballot box will have profound implications for Canada. Will we eventually re-visit same-sex marriage and abortion? Will we shrink the welfare state? Immigrant and visible minority voters may hold the key.
The Canadian Election Study reveals that, in 2008, immigrants were almost as likely to vote Conservative (33 per cent of them did) as Liberal (38 per cent). That's a drop of 17 percentage points in Liberal support between the 2000 and 2008 elections.
Although overall support for the Conservatives among immigrants remained steady over the last decade at around one voter in three, among more recent immigrants - those who are likely to be visible minorities - a switch is clearly under way.
Between 2000 and 2008 support for the Liberals among "viz mins" plummeted from 83 per cent to 49 per cent, while Conservative support climbed from 16 to 26 per cent.
...
The immigrant vote will only grow more important with each election, as Canada imports the equivalent of the city of Toronto every 10 years. New legislation proposed by the Conservatives would add 30 seats to the House of Commons and all the new ridings will be in urban areas and most will have large immigrant populations.
For Liberals, the erosion of their support is desperate news. The immigrant vote has been a pillar of the party's success since the Second World War. Everyone, especially immigrants, knew that Liberals wanted to let people in; Tories wanted to keep them out.
Twenty-five per cent of those arriving on Canada's shores over the last decade come from China or India. Most of them are well-educated, top-notch applicants. The Philippines and Pakistan are the third and fourth-largest source countries. These Asian and Pacific societies place more of an emphasis on family and community needs and less on individual rights. As well, many new Canadians are fleeing countries with large, bureaucratic and sometimes undemocratic governments. These immigrants are generally both economically and socially more conservative than most native-born Canadians.
They are people like Randeep Sandhu, 36, who owns a trucking business. When he came to Canada from the Indian Punjab, all politics were Liberal politics in the Sikh community of Brampton, Ont. But over time he drifted to conservatism. Same-sex marriage was, as he puts it, the final straw.
"The way we were raised, we were taught conservatism, from eating habits to spending habits," he said. "That's the thing I like about conservatism. There's less misuse of funds. It's not elaborate government where everybody gets their share to spend of the public money." |
I knew that Chinese were moving to the Cons but the total shift is a big surprise to me. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| The bigger threat to stability in the US will be Mexican immigrants who have a greater allegiance to Mexico than their adoptive home. When this segment of the population becomes the majority of voters in a region or state, there will be some major complications... |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| The bigger threat to stability in the US will be Mexican immigrants who have a greater allegiance to Mexico than their adoptive home. When this segment of the population becomes the majority of voters in a region or state, there will be some major complications... |
Except those who actually vote tend to be more pro-America and patriotic towards here than Mexico. I'm not really worried about that one.
Mises original point is my primary concern (lower education and low-skilled labor versus highly educated and high skilled entering Canada). There was an excellent op-ed in the WaPo a couple weeks ago saying we should keep our borders open to some degree but get rid of the stupid family unification policy. THAT is what those knucklehead Tea Party and anti-immigration people should be focusing on. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| comparing Canada to the U.S. is apples to oranges. but agree with a lot that has been said. Then I think about irish immigration, all of those Catholics entereing the U.s. with more allegiance to Rome than the U.s. and they multiply like rabbits, and the violence that Catholic gangs bring. they want to import the terrorism of Ireland to the U.S. Then the drinking, millions of dienfranchised Irish males drunk on the U.s.'s streets will lead to violence perhaps revolution. Imagine what would happen if they ever held high office. It could happen with their birth rates they could overwhelm protestant Ameica. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| There was an excellent op-ed in the WaPo a couple weeks ago saying we should keep our borders open to some degree but get rid of the stupid family unification policy. |
I strongly disagree. Keeping families together helps them all assimilate and view America as their new home. I don't want an immigration policy that says to talented foreigners: "Hey, you and your wife can come, and maybe your kids, but we don't want to be saddled with your economically useless old father or your poetry-writing uncle." |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| comparing Canada to the U.S. is apples to oranges. but agree with a lot that has been said. Then I think about irish immigration, all of those Catholics entereing the U.s. with more allegiance to Rome than the U.s. and they multiply like rabbits, and the violence that Catholic gangs bring. they want to import the terrorism of Ireland to the U.S. Then the drinking, millions of dienfranchised Irish males drunk on the U.s.'s streets will lead to violence perhaps revolution. Imagine what would happen if they ever held high office. It could happen with their birth rates they could overwhelm protestant Ameica. |
Yeah, look at what that one Irish guy, what's his name, O'Bama, has done to the country. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
rollo wrote:
comparing Canada to the U.S. is apples to oranges. but agree with a lot that has been said. Then I think about irish immigration, all of those Catholics entereing the U.s. with more allegiance to Rome than the U.s. and they multiply like rabbits, and the violence that Catholic gangs bring. they want to import the terrorism of Ireland to the U.S. Then the drinking, millions of dienfranchised Irish males drunk on the U.s.'s streets will lead to violence perhaps revolution. Imagine what would happen if they ever held high office. It could happen with their birth rates they could overwhelm protestant Ameica.
Yeah, look at what that one Irish guy, what's his name, O'Bama, has done to the country. |
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