Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mr_Bacon]

Please correct any misconceptions that I have (I'm still years away from being able to actually partake in all of this stuff), but it seems to me that Japan doesn't offer any financial incentives (plane tix, paid housing) because they know they'll get applicants anyway. Everyone loves Japan.

It also makes sense that Korea, as the 2nd most economically developed yet less popular country in region, would offer great benefits to increase applicants and Anglicize their workforce to catch up to Japan.

At what point, if ever, will Korea become popular for its merits rather than its incentives? If/when that happens, will the incentives stop?

If that happened, what country would most likely fill the void by offering its own incentives? Maybe China, since they're so connected to the West?


Sorry, lots of questions there...thank you for indulging my curiosity!

[chellovek]

Korea just ain't that cool, man.

If I were starting out again (this is back when I had my dear old dog "chompy" back in '56) I'd go to Japan or China.

[HalfJapanese]

Yeah, if Korea was famous for cool gadgets, video games, and Anime/Manga, like Japan, I'm sure there would be a flood people applying to teach English in Korea. (That is just my opinion.)

[moosehead]

I think Jpn doesn't offer airfare because it's so expensive to live there - this is just their way of getting you used to it bit by bit. several other countries do actually reimburse teachers or offer relocation expenses.

[Troglodyte]

I think that in most countries (Korean and Japan included) it's a matter of what the market will bear (how much schools will pay, how much teachers will accept) and supply and demand (lots of jobs, lack of NETs). If Korea didn't offer airfare or accommodation then I'm sure very few people would come here. If the money and working conditions were the same, I think that most people would choose Japan over Korea because there's a better standard of living there. Also, my impression of Japan is that the language schools there are a bit better than here. They have their fair share of dishonest bosses but from what i observed (I did a lot of freelance when I was there) they didn't cheat the teachers as much. That may be because the work visa for Japan is not locked to one employer (another benefit of working in Japan). At the end of the day, I think that people come to Korea because it's the best (or one of the best) places to save money and there are plenty of job offers here. (Can someone quote how many NETs work in Japan each year? I can't verify if KR really does have more than Japan.)

If Korea wasn't offering airfare and accommodation, then I think that a lot more people would end up going to Taiwan, Thailand and Vietnam. From what friends have told me Hong Kong also pays quite well, but I haven't been watching the job adverts there.

So, will Korea eventually become like Japan as far as ELT jobs? Probably not in the near future.

[wilson535]

i currently work as an ALT in Japan for a well known/infamous (delete as applicable) company called interac. outside of the JET program there is no financial incentive to work here, because of the sheer amount of people who will come to live here for a year or two and not be too concerned about making a good income.

it's the reason i'm leaving for seoul in august. you just cant earn enough money teaching here to make it worthwhile in the medium to long term without having to take another part time position in the evening or whatever.

there are no pay increases and pretty much no future prospects, no benefits such as accommodation and most employers skirt around paying for health insurance by stating that you have less than 30 teaching hours per week (over 30 hours is considered full time, and then it becomes mandatory for the employer to pay).

i've lived in tokyo for the majority of my time here and have pretty much had to pay for everything on 250,000 yen per month. factoring in the crazy price of rent here, you don't end up left with much. i can't wait to get to seoul and start having some disposable income.

all that said though, tokyo is the most amazing city i have ever visited and i love it here. for one year, teaching in japan is fantastic. its gets difficult if you plan to be here longer.

i can't see the korean market becoming like japan any time soon because i can't see the demand being as high.

[AsiaESLbound]

Sure it will become more competitive as it develops where higher qualifications and such will be required to teach in Korea, but it's far from being anything like Japan. Might give them 10 more years to develop. Will require not just physical development, but cultural development where manners and cleanliness become more important along with a broader world view.

[bcjinseoul]

During the game last night a friend of mine mentioned that there were twice as many teachers here now in 2010 then there were during the last world cup back in 2006. If things stay this bad in the West for another 4 years I bet by 2014 it will double again.

It's still easy to get a job in Korea...IF you are willing to work say, at a bad hogwon in Gyeonggi or a public school in some province. But take a look around how much this place has changed within the last half-decade.

A few years ago, there was a great exchange rate, far fewer teachers and competition, abnormally high hourly work, no hassle to get a visa (ie you didn't need to notarize and apostille a state-wide CRC), a lot less hogwons were going under, every other college job had about 12 teaching hours a week and 5 months vacation, people at public schools actually had 8-12 weeks of vacation as well.

These days, the exchange rate flounders, newbies that are coming here in droves are happy to work in the country or really bad hogwons in gyeonggi, the paperwork for a visa is getting bad -- multi-state CRCs and local Korean CRCs are around the corner, for every new job you get, every other hourly gig on worknplay.co.kr pays 25 an hour, most colleges have you teach 16-20 (or more) a week and only give you 6-8 weeks off, almost everyone in GEPIK and SMOE and even EPIK is getting 4 weeks off...just 2 more than a hogwon. Overtime for every job seems to be stagnant at 10-20 and hour, and wages haven't budged in a decade, and lots of hogwons are going out of business.

Someone said a month or two ago on eslcafe something like this, in regards to the industry: ~"Japan is dead, Taiwan is dying, and Korea is just a former shadow of itself when there used to be 5,000 unfilled jobs any minute, a great exchange rate, and no hassle to get a visa"~

I have always thought history repeats myself. Japan just doesn't have an English Fever anymore, as it did 20 years, when in the late 1980s and early 1990s there were as many jobs over there as this place. These days their college market is so tight from what I understand you usually need to know Japanese and have both a PhD and published work to get a uni gig there. I often wonder how much longer Koreans will continue this obsession the Japanese once had.

Korea might be on its way...seems to me almost every college job in Incheon, Daejeon, Daegu, Busan, Ulsan and Gwangju wants an MA and uni experience these days, and even if they don't ask for it, they get it, usually. EPIK, GEPIK, and SMOE continue to get thousands of resumes for hundreds of positions every year as well, and most people in those jobs these days usually already have a year of Korea under there belt beforehand, if no teaching license, experience, or TEFL to speak of.

There are more long term people here, F-2s and F-4s than ever before, and this is clearly a better country than what it once was 5-10 years ago.

As long as E-2 visa laws forbid privates, however, employers will still pay rent. Airfare could go either way. If everyone could freelance for themselves like the 3 year Japan visa, you'd have to put up rent yourself.

[Forward Observer]

[Unposter]

It is all merely speculation at this point.

I always assumed (for no particular reason) that part of the idea of the airfare and the housing was that some Korean owns your visa and is responsible for what you in Korea.

My understanding, and I have never worked in Japan, but no one owns your visa in Japan the way they do in Korea and it is a fairly simple process to quit one job and start another, unlike here in Korea.

Now, if there was more job flexibility and personal independence, it might be a fair trade off for paying for your own housing and airfare.

That said, if the economies in the West recover, the labor market here in Korea will probably start to thin and it won't go the way of Japan.

On the other hand, if the West does not recover or considerably changes for the worst, life and work in Korea could change quite a lot. One of the main reasons Koreans are so eager to learn English is because they are interested in the educational and economic opportunities the West offers. If those were to dwindle or even disappear so would most of the motivation to learn English and then the Korean market won't go the way of Japan but will dwindle or disappear all together.

Either way, Korea will be Korea. It is unlikely to go the way of Japan. But, it would be great for those of you on E-2s if there were more job flexibility. But, again, this is Korea.

[itaewonguy]

When the politicians finally realize that taking English off the exams for students and not putting such a huge emphasis on English studying then mothers will stop sending their kids to English hakwons. Then the demand dies off and hakwons start to close down in droves. the boom will be over!

but, will this happen???? NOT IN THIS LIFE TIME!!!!!!

[PatrickGHBusan]

It is a fair bet than the ESL TESL industry in Korea could become more like Japan's over the mid to long term.

The first things to go would be airfaire and free accomodations.

It is darn hard to say how long this will take however.

the argument about western economies influencing the Korean market are relevant however, jobs for teachers in many western countries are not going to become more available over time, demographics point otherwise. Then again the same demographics apply in Japan and Korea (ageing population) but the difference is, Foreign English Teachers are in a less numerous and often more in demand category.

Do not assume that if Korea stops paying airfaire and accomodations that no Teachers will come here. You could be surprised.

The huge market for the great unqualified masses (those of us with degrees in basket weaving) is China where the required qualifications are a joke (except Hong Kong) and where pay has been increasing.

[nautilus]

[Mr_Bacon]

Wow, I'm glad I got so many replies.

"I have always thought history repeats myself. Japan just doesn't have an English Fever anymore, as it did 20 years, when in the late 1980s and early 1990s there were as many jobs over there as this place."

That was my thinking too. After reading all of the responses, it looks like nobody can be certain what will happen. Lots of economic factors involved that aren't very predictable.

Some of you have praised China, which is somewhere I never really thought about. I read something quite a while back that said China paid like crap and a few other neg things, and I never bothered to do more research on it. What makes China a desirable location? And how do HK and the rest of China differ?

[PatrickGHBusan]

To be clear, I did not praise China...others may have done so.

I just think it is evident that China is the emerging ESL-TESL destination as wages have improved and they still accept anyone with a heartbeat....