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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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I dont know these scum child killers and rapists alwayS have an excuse. oF COURSe he wanted them to be sIlent but is that really why he killed them. he should have been kept and Studied. One of thoSe animalS claimed he killed the child after he raped and totured her because her father was abusIng her and if he released her the abuse would continue.
It is a civil war in Afghanistan. The taliban want power. If REAGAN had not pulled out in the 80's abandoning the sAfghanis none of this would be going on. THE U.S. should have rebuilt the country after sovietS left. we took our eye off the ball. the taliban are not the mujhadeen, they were the young men radicalized in the refugee camps by wahabi clerics during the war with the sovietS. Back on topic the sTaliban did not launch the TimeS square bomber, this was a wanna be with mental problems.. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| This is going into a different topic now but Im not sure if the taliban are interested in getting everyone to obey Islamic law. I know that's the argument Sam Harris might make and you probably buy into this but I'm not so sure about it anymore. |
I remain fairly convinced. Whey they are in control of a region, that's exactly how they administer it.
| recessiontime wrote: |
makes more sense to me that they are doing it as a reaction to American foreign policy in the middle east rather than because our lifestyle or because we aren't Muslim. You'd think they'll hijack planes in other countries like Australia, Canada or Germany but instead they went for the US.
Of course, what enables them to blow themselves up for such a cause is their belief that their violent acts can get them rewarded in the afterlife. I'm sure though that if they had long range missiles at their disposal they wouldn't bother hijacking planes. |
I think even if the Taliban were involved in this act of terrorism, it's ultimately a tiny, tangental part of what they're about. Most of their attentions are given to whatever population they rule over, much to that population's detriment. I agree, assuming they were in fact involved in that act of terrorism, it's probably got as much or more to do with American foreign policy as anything else. I none the less maintain that their primary focus is the creation and continuance of governance in accordance with their interpretation of Islamic law.
| Leon wrote: |
| They are not really interested in making everyone follow sharia, just everyone in Afghanistan. The Taliban do not have, or did not have I suppose, ambitious foreign policy goals. |
I suspect teh Taliban would love to effectively spread Islamic Law beyond Afghanistan. They simply lack the means to do it, and as such, this desire doesn't warrant a military confrontation. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| [q. They are brainwashed and believe that what they are doing is right and are willing to die for it. How is that not brave? . |
How is being brainwashed being brave? It would be much braver to do it out of an act of free will and giving up things.
Most people who are suicide bombers don't have much to look forwards to. If they are promised a happier afterlife and believe that is what will happen how is that brave? Your family gets money and you get 72 virgins...forever. Plus food and drink and you live for eternity.
Seems like a pretty massive incentive rather than bravery. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
What are you talking about? They are an indigenous group. They are many things, but invader is not one of them.
As to the bravery bit, what they do isn't a brave act, but that doesn't mean that they aren't brave. Anytime you give your life up for a cause it's brave, regardless of the worthiness of the cause. I hate Nazis but I'm sure many of the soldiers were brave, do see what I'm saying. To say you know the motivation for all those people, and that it is all the same, is looking at it to simply. I want to make it clear that I'm not in any way condoning what they do, but rather taking an honest measure of the enemy. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
What are you talking about? They are an indigenous group. T
. |
No they are NOT. They are a created movement from more than one indigenous group. This movement didn't even exist until after the Soviet withdrawal. And then they invaded other parts of Afghanistan and began to impose their ideology on it. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
What are you talking about? They are an indigenous group. T
. |
No they are NOT. They are a created movement from more than one indigenous group. This movement didn't even exist until after the Soviet withdrawal. |
Please explain, the people are local, there for indigenous. The people existed before, long before, the soviet union did. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
What are you talking about? They are an indigenous group. T
. |
No they are NOT. They are a created movement from more than one indigenous group. This movement didn't even exist until after the Soviet withdrawal. |
Please explain, the people are local, there for indigenous. The people existed before, long before, the soviet union did. |
The Taliban are not an indigenous group...they are an ideology, a movement. They never even existed UNTIL AFTER the USSR's withdrawal.
Google "history of the Taliban"
Now let's get back to the Times Square bomb. |
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Senior
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
What are you talking about? They are an indigenous group. T
. |
No they are NOT. They are a created movement from more than one indigenous group. This movement didn't even exist until after the Soviet withdrawal. |
Please explain, the people are local, there for indigenous. The people existed before, long before, the soviet union did. |
Good grief. Do a five second google search.
| Quote: |
| The movement is primarily made up of members belonging to ethnic Pashtun tribes,[6] along with volunteers from nearby Islamic countries such as Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chechens, Arabs, Punjabis and others.[7][8][9] It operates in Afghanistan and Pakistan, mostly around the Durand Line regions. U.S. officials say their headquarters is in or near Quetta, Pakistan, and that Pakistan and Iran provide support[10][11][12][13], although both nations deny this.[14][15] |
Try and guess where it's from. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
What are you talking about? They are an indigenous group. T
. |
No they are NOT. They are a created movement from more than one indigenous group. This movement didn't even exist until after the Soviet withdrawal. |
Please explain, the people are local, there for indigenous. The people existed before, long before, the soviet union did. |
The Taliban are not an indigenous group...they are an ideology, a movement. They never even existed UNTIL AFTER the USSR's withdrawal.
Google "history of the Taliban"
Now let's get back to the Times Square bomb. |
I know about the history, I thought you meant the people weren't indigenous, as a movement is a group of people. It is indigenous in the sense that it is largely Pashtun and created in Pakistan, which ethnically and culturally speaking might as well still be indigenous, there fore not an invading force. Don't need to google it, my final project in college was about the Taliban.
Back to the Times Square bomb, it is the work of a lone idiot. The Taliban may have given him some training, but one gets the feeling that since they only trained him for a couple of days they probably realized that he was incompetent. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Taliban was to some degree a product of the Pakistani military and intelligence service. Also the Saudi's and some other groups. It is not just America which interferes inother countries. Russia, Pakistan, India, Britain and saudi Arabia have all played hell in Afghanistan. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Senior wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
[q
Are you talking about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda? The Taliban are doing it as a reaction to being invaded, pure and simple. . |
The Taliban are invaders themselves. |
What are you talking about? They are an indigenous group. T
. |
No they are NOT. They are a created movement from more than one indigenous group. This movement didn't even exist until after the Soviet withdrawal. |
Please explain, the people are local, there for indigenous. The people existed before, long before, the soviet union did. |
Good grief. Do a five second google search.
| Quote: |
| The movement is primarily made up of members belonging to ethnic Pashtun tribes,[6] along with volunteers from nearby Islamic countries such as Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chechens, Arabs, Punjabis and others.[7][8][9] It operates in Afghanistan and Pakistan, mostly around the Durand Line regions. U.S. officials say their headquarters is in or near Quetta, Pakistan, and that Pakistan and Iran provide support[10][11][12][13], although both nations deny this.[14][15] |
Try and guess where it's from. |
What are you talking about? The quote you used confirmed what I said. Why do a five second google search when I've already written a ten page research paper on the topic. Pashtun is native to Afghanistan and Pakistan, therefor it is indigenous to the region, there for I wouldn't consider it to be an invading force. The part of Pakistan where it is primarily located isn't even under Pakistan control and hasn't ever really been. It's called the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and it's under tribal control. The border between Pakistan and Afghanistan exists primarily on maps, but in reality it blends together. Did Saudis have some influence, yes. Did the isi have some influence, yes. I don't have to guess where it's from, it's from Afghanistan and Pakistan. It's roots lie in Afghani refugees from the war with the USSR who went to radical Madrassas in Pakistan. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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The Taliban is everything and nothing. It is who we are killing and who is trying to kill us, until we bribe them to stop killing us, at which point they stop being the Taliban. Mostly they are Pastun farmers and vagrants.
They aren't invaders because the borders aren't meaningful. Afghanistan and Pakistan are two separate nations to us but to the Pashtuns the understanding is quite a bit different. The Pakistan government has (had) a nice agreement with them that they'd be left alone.
They'd rather go back to farming and beating their sisters. When we leave that's what they'll do. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| [qu Pashtun is native to Afghanistan and Pakistan, therefor it is indigenous to the region, there for I wouldn't consider it to be an invading force. . |
YOU maybe wouldn't consider it an invading force, but I think the Northern Alliance would have a radically different idea. Considering that they actually live there I think that's a better reference than a ten page paper.
http://www.zharov.com/afghan/taliban.html
According to this "in non-Pushtun areas they [the Taliban] were perceived as a foreign element."
So yes they were seen as an invading force by the locals.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Laughing @ Northern Alliance reference. It's been a long time. |
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