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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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 Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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You, OTOH, just got finished defining CP as "Minors engaging in sexual acts." Since current law also proscribes "lascivious exhibition of the genitals" of a minor but you stopped short of including that in your definition, one can only conclude that it is not something you want covered by the law. Maybe that was just an oversight on your part, so here is your chance to clarify: do you think that CP law ought to proscribe "lascivious exhibition of the genitals" as well as "minors engaging in sexual acts"?
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Minor's in sexual acts is pretty clear to me. Lascivious.... the definition is somewhat broad, but if parents --adults-- post, trade, DL, upload, purchase etc. Images of children in compromising positions, then I have no problem with an investigation. Now, the penalties seem to be quite harsh.
I doubt too many judges would be too harshe for me taking a picture of my sons bottom while he was taking a pee. And no one in my group of several hundred facebook frineds have reported me as of yet.
Now back to my question, If someone downloads, or posseses -for free- a child being raped, or video of minors engagin in sex, should they be charged with a criminal offense. A simple Yes or No answer and we can both be on our way. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
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| You, OTOH, just got finished defining CP as "Minors engaging in sexual acts." Since current law also proscribes "lascivious exhibition of the genitals" of a minor but you stopped short of including that in your definition, one can only conclude that it is not something you want covered by the law. Maybe that was just an oversight on your part, so here is your chance to clarify: do you think that CP law ought to proscribe "lascivious exhibition of the genitals" as well as "minors engaging in sexual acts"? |
Minor's in sexual acts is pretty clear to me. Lascivious.... the definition is somewhat broad, but if parents --adults-- post, trade, DL, upload, purchase etc. Images of children in compromising positions, then I have no problem with an investigation. Now, the penalties seem to be quite harsh. |
Yes, the definition is broad, and this is part of the problem. There is no way ahead of time whether a picture will be considered to violate the law - until the jury returns its verdict. Is this any way to run a society?
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| I doubt too many judges would be too harshe for me taking a picture of my sons bottom while he was taking a pee. And no one in my group of several hundred facebook frineds have reported me as of yet. |
What is so special about you that a judge would treat you differently than all the other parents charged and found guilty for similar photos? You took a photo of his bare bottom while peeing??? Now this is really getting creepy  Frankly, I don't think you'd have a chance at trial.
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| Now back to my question, If someone downloads, or posseses -for free- a child being raped, or video of minors engagin in sex, should they be charged with a criminal offense. A simple Yes or No answer and we can both be on our way. |
When you give a simple Yes or No answer to my question about "lascivious exhibition of the genitals," I'll give you mine. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| When you give a simple Yes or No answer to my question about "lascivious exhibition of the genitals," I'll give you mine. |
According to my own definitions of "lascivious". Yes. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| OK, so you refuse to answer the question, which is not "Whose definition of 'lascivious exhibition of the genitals of a minor' should we go by?" You are neither the judge, prosecutor, jury, nor appeals court. The question is, "Do you support the inclusion as a violation of the child pornography law 'lascivious exhibition of the genitals of a minor?'" |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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According to what I view as 'lascivious'..... Yes.
Now how about you.... |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:13 am Post subject: |
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Megalomania can be a real impediment to communication. Too bad. Oh, well. I tried.
Anyway, regardless of what some people in their own minds decide is or isn't child porn, other people, like author Debbie Nathan, need to see it. Her reasons can be read here, Why I need to see child porn. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:43 am Post subject: |
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You just can't answer the question eh? Just humor me.
I'm asking you if it's ok to view and possess it so long as no money has changed hands...... Why not give me a simple answer? Be the courageous advocate of freedom and democracy you claim to be and answer my simple question.
You can continue to belittle and bemoan. Use all the sarcasm you want. Simply man up and answer the question. I did.
YES, or NO? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I am not going to keep going around in circles with you. I already said I'd answer the question when you answered mine, which you stubbornly refuse to do. I even restated it in on uncertain terms, but you keep instead answering your own question. I don't have time for that.
As I watch Wimbledon, the ball is in your court. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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According to what I view as 'lascivious'..... Yes.
Now how about you.... |
That's not good enough? 
OK, I'll humor you. My answer is Yes.
Serioulsy, I want this debate to end. Regardless of how many studies you can cite of how sexual abouse victims really aren't affected that badly, significant amounts of men who get an erection when watching kiddie porn and now, of course, why certain journalists desperately need to watch kiddie porn for the good of siciety.
I can't remember the last time I've lowered myself to this futile attempt going nowhere. So if you would kkindly just cop out, or admit that you are a defacto child porn apoligist and it's ok to view kids being raped.
Regardles of your answer --or likely non-answer-- I'm done. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
| Regardless of how many studies you can cite of how sexual abouse victims really aren't affected that badly, significant amounts of men who get an erection when watching kiddie porn and now, of course, why certain journalists desperately need to watch kiddie porn for the good of siciety. |
Just wondering what people here consider 'kiddie' porn?
Under 18? 16? 10?
I can understand getting aroused by some 10 year old is unusual. But how about a 16 year old? I would say that most men, like 90%+, will get aroused seeing a 16 year old girl nude. But most will not admit or act on it. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| riverboy wrote: |
| Regardless of how many studies you can cite of how sexual abouse victims really aren't affected that badly, significant amounts of men who get an erection when watching kiddie porn and now, of course, why certain journalists desperately need to watch kiddie porn for the good of siciety. |
Just wondering what people here consider 'kiddie' porn?
Under 18? 16? 10?
I can understand getting aroused by some 10 year old is unusual. But how about a 16 year old? I would say that most men, like 90%+, will get aroused seeing a 16 year old girl nude. But most will not admit or act on it. |
Good question. For clearness' sake, pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children, although according to the law 'kiddie porn' probably means sub 18. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| riverboy wrote: |
| Regardless of how many studies you can cite of how sexual abouse victims really aren't affected that badly, significant amounts of men who get an erection when watching kiddie porn and now, of course, why certain journalists desperately need to watch kiddie porn for the good of siciety. |
Just wondering what people here consider 'kiddie' porn?
Under 18? 16? 10?
I can understand getting aroused by some 10 year old is unusual. But how about a 16 year old? I would say that most men, like 90%+, will get aroused seeing a 16 year old girl nude. But most will not admit or act on it. |
Good question. For clearness' sake, pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent children, although according to the law 'kiddie porn' probably means sub 18. |
Not only is this a very good question, it is the one I have been trying to get at all this time. Just what is it? The problem is that it is left purposely vague, leading to a situation where prosecutors can be quite arbitrary in selecting cases to go forward. If "lascivious exhibition of the genitals" includes a bulge being visible in a foto of a clothed minor, or merely that the pubic region is in the center of the foto, almost any foto of a kid can be considered kiddy porn. For the citizen, there is practically no way to know what will be so considered until the jury returns it s verdict.
That is no way to run a "justice" system. |
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