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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
Either England were piss poor or Germany suprised them by showing them how well they can play good football.
Not to take anything away from the Germans but I'm going to go with piss poor.
It was embarassing watching the Germans run circles around the England team. |
Despite the controversy we were awful. Terry was somewhere else entirely and got found out for the bonehead he is. Gerrard was anonymous (again), all around they were poor.
Rooney is an awesome player but to me he looked more like a United player than an England player. He kept going really deep like he does often at United and he didnt seem to be able to adapt to the system. He is a much better player than when he was young but seems to have sacrificed his more explosive qualities for his all-round game at United.
Cant blame him for that though. My theory is the players get so much grief playing for England that they just arent that bothered about it. They get absolutely pilloried by the press and to be fair I do feel sorry for them at times.
This tournament seems to have come a season too late for Gerrard, Rooney et al who all looked jaded and tired.
Simply not good enough and we got beaten by a team that are better than us by some distance. |
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Mariella713
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| Rooney is an awesome player |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Mariella713 wrote: |
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| Rooney is an awesome player |
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Exactly. Nobody could ever believe that.. going on his world cup performance.
Its pointless to only play well for your club, but completely fail to deliver at an international level. It was clear early on that he was not performing.. and he should've been replaced. |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| Mariella713 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Rooney is an awesome player |
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Exactly. Nobody could ever believe that.. going on his world cup performance.
Its pointless to only play well for your club, but completely fail to deliver at an international level. It was clear early on that he was not performing.. and he should've been replaced. |
Yeah but surely at club-level you play and train week-in week-out with the same people and you work out a more effective modus-operandi with those players than with national compatriots that you only play with for occasional friendlies and tournaments that occur only so-often. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Funny, but other teams like Argentina, Holland, Brasil, Germany etc don't seem to have this problem. I'm sure their superstars don't play much together either before a WC tournament yet they excel. Why the discrepancy? Maybe Rooney is just over-rated from his stacked international talent based team of MAN U and the exposure from the English PL? |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:02 am Post subject: |
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The fact he was playing out of position and in a different formation had something to do with it.
The position he plays relies alot on the players around him. |
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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Funny, but other teams like Argentina, Holland, Brasil, Germany etc don't seem to have this problem. I'm sure their superstars don't play much together either before a WC tournament yet they excel. Why the discrepancy? Maybe Rooney is just over-rated from his stacked international talent based team of MAN U and the exposure from the English PL? |
Actually that's a good point, man. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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People in the UK are convinced that the EPL is the best league in the world. I have argued against this with my friends back home for years. They believe that because it is exciting to watch with a lot of goals (compared to the Italian and Spanish leagues), it is obviously the best.
The truth is that very few English teams play with any real skill or tactical prowess. Even at the top level, many teams play with the physical "kick and chase" mentality seen on amateur Sunday league pitches.
Those that do play with skill (ie Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal) are leagues ahead of the rest. These teams are also all stacked with overseas talent as well, because the majority of English players are boneheads.
But people in England believe the hype. To say Rooney is one of the top 3 players in the world is just ignorant of the all the other players with vastly superior skills to him. Okay, he has scored a lot of goals for Man U, but a lot of them have been against the likes of West Brom, Bolton etc.
I don't think he'd have the same level of success in Spain or Italy. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Look at the way Robinho played against Chile and the goal he scored. How often did he play like that for Man City (also stacked with international players) against Bolton, West Brom and the like? Rooney played like Robinho repeatedly for Man United last season but just couldn't reproduce it in South Africa. Pobably down to his ankle. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Look at the way Robinho played against Chile and the goal he scored. How often did he play like that for Man City (also stacked with international players) against Bolton, West Brom and the like? Rooney played like Robinho repeatedly for Man United last season but just couldn't reproduce it in South Africa. Pobably down to his ankle. |
Rooney's recent injury woes probably did have some bearing on his poor show in SA, but even fully fit would he have done anything amazing? Premiership defences are not on a par with the best international teams. Robinho's problems with Man City were not down to his ability, but more his off-field problems. He wasn't happy in England and he clearly didn't want to be there.
Rooney is class compared to other English players, but that's not exactly difficult. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Look at the way Robinho played against Chile and the goal he scored. How often did he play like that for Man City (also stacked with international players) against Bolton, West Brom and the like? Rooney played like Robinho repeatedly for Man United last season but just couldn't reproduce it in South Africa. Pobably down to his ankle. |
Rooney's recent injury woes probably did have some bearing on his poor show in SA, but even fully fit would he have done anything amazing? Premiership defences are not on a par with the best international teams. Robinho's problems with Man City were not down to his ability, but more his off-field problems. He wasn't happy in England and he clearly didn't want to be there.
Rooney is class compared to other English players, but that's not exactly difficult. |
I've heard a few Brazilians say they think it's a mistake for Brazilians to go to the EPL. They always say they'll hate it because of the weather and language. The culture and language issues in Spain are minimal compared to England. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like the real problem might be finally adressed. That is a lack of skill being taught to youngsters. Maybe its time to swallow your pride and learn from the superior countries.
I remember this from the failure to qualify for Euro 2008.
Craig Johnson criticized English Football |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I've seen that clip before and he was spot on. Fast forward 2 years, still no improvement. The people in the FA are dinosaurs and they're all paid like bank managers. |
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Mariella713
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| I've heard a few Brazilians say they think it's a mistake for Brazilians to go to the EPL. They always say they'll hate it because of the weather and language. The culture and language issues in Spain are minimal compared to England. |
It's the same with most foreign players - they complain about British weather and food and long to go back to their homelands again, or somewhere with a better climate. I don't blame them.  |
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rusty1983
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
People in the UK are convinced that the EPL is the best league in the world. I have argued against this with my friends back home for years. They believe that because it is exciting to watch with a lot of goals (compared to the Italian and Spanish leagues), it is obviously the best.
The truth is that very few English teams play with any real skill or tactical prowess. Even at the top level, many teams play with the physical "kick and chase" mentality seen on amateur Sunday league pitches.
Those that do play with skill (ie Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal) are leagues ahead of the rest. These teams are also all stacked with overseas talent as well, because the majority of English players are boneheads.
But people in England believe the hype. To say Rooney is one of the top 3 players in the world is just ignorant of the all the other players with vastly superior skills to him. Okay, he has scored a lot of goals for Man U, but a lot of them have been against the likes of West Brom, Bolton etc.
I don't think he'd have the same level of success in Spain or Italy. |
To be honest a lot of the Premiership teams are stacked with foreigners. I think the main problem is that to have the most attractive/rich league ion the world we sacrifice a youth system that could make us international contenders. France sorted out their youth system back in the 90's and went on to win a World Cup (very very nearly 2!) and a European Championship.
Spain sorted out their youth system recently and everyone can see the benefits. Some of the figures coming out are shocking, the number of coaches working with the Spanish youth vastly dwarfs the English number. Then also consider that a lot of young English talent will be muscled out by a foreign superstar and you can see why we dont produce the players we could.
The Premiership is not the most technical but it is by miles the most exciting in my eyes. In recent years especially. Although it is dominated by 4 or 5 teams, in Spain you know it's only going to be Madrid or Barca that get anywhere near, and in Italy Inter Milan have won 3 leagues on the bounce. There are not that many easy games in the Premiership - other leagues are much more predictable. All the top teams in England lost a shocking amount of games. Man United lost 6 or 7 and still went within a few points of retianing their league.
As someone who has watched the Premiership week in, week out since I was about 5 (as oppose to someone who watched their first matches this summer) I can assure you that Rooney is an extraordinary player. He does pretty much everything you could want and he would walk into any team in Europe.
Having said that though, he's not in the top 3 in the world. No way. He's been symbolic of the 'English Bulldog Spirit' tm but has never really come through when it has mattered. This time round he was especially poor!
Finally, what people are saying is absolutely right, although I believe the Prem is the best league in the world we have no right to assume we will do well in tournaments. This is arrogance. People were saying we had such a great squad yet the majority of other squads are unknown to most. This is before you even take into account the fact that most of them have their heads up their arses.
From what I have heard there is no other country that builds them up to break them down like we do. Everyone expects a win then the first sign of trouble and the whole set up is villainised. No wonder they look like they cant be bothered. |
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