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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulio wrote: |
| littlelisa wrote: |
| Underwaterbob wrote: |
| Canada doesn't have much, if any, of a uniform national identity. It's the second largest country in the world, the 36th most populous, very culturally diverse and a mere 143 years old. A lobster fishing east coaster has little in common with a Quebecois businessman has little in common with a Torontonian Muslim Imam has little in common with an Albertan oil baron. Give us another hundred years and three times the population and maybe some kind of congruity will pop up. |
I agree with this. I am happy to be Canadian (read: not a separatist), but really, I can't think of anything particularly Canadian...
I like to call myself a Montrealer. |
Lacrosse, maple syrup, hockey, the maple leaf, "eh"
I can't really name anything particularilly American, particularily Britis or Particularily German either, so not sure if that really says much |
Do you really associate these things as part of your identity? Seriously? Nobody I know does. Heck, who even watches/plays lacrosse? I don't even know how to play it. |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Seoulio wrote: |
Ok NYC Gal , we have had this discussion before and I am NOT getting into it with you again.,
It's possible had I actually looked it would have appeared wrong, but then again maybe not.
I could easilly point out that Apple Pie and Baseball originated in England, and that the modern version of Baseball was actually first played in Canada and not America,
but seeing as though you were insinuating that these are a part of the American "Identity", i can forgive both of these.
Just as you know darn well what word I was using without going back into spelling Nazi mode.
As for thanking Americans for toilet paper, no thanks, thats ONE Person,an individual that did that, and he borrowed from a previous idea and just made it better.
Are you going to thank Canadians for basketball? the Telephone ( thats right invented by a scotsman residing in Canada for decades), the garbage bag, the pacemaker, Imax, heart valve surgery, insulin production, kerosene, newsprint, the walkie talkie, the snowblower, or the zipper? |
EVERY idea is borrowed from a previous one and improved upon. That's civilization in a nutshell! You go enjoy that catalog paper 
As for your spelling, well, I'm having fun with you. We've had this argument before. I'm in that kind of mood today.
I have thanked Canadians for Basketball (on Dave's!). Actually, it was this week  It's my favorite game. It was during a soccer thread, I believe. It was also invented by Dr. James Naismith, who is an individual.
The garbage bag was invented by Harry Wasylyk and Larry Hansen. 2 people. By your logic, Canada shouldn't take credit.
As for Baseball: The earliest known reference to baseball is in a 1744 British publication, A Little Pretty Pocket-Book, by John Newbery. It contains a rhymed description of "base-ball" and a woodcut that shows a field set-up somewhat similar to the modern game�though in a triangular rather than diamond configuration, and with posts instead of ground-level bases.[5] English lawyer William Bray recorded a game of baseball on Easter Monday 1755 in Guildford, Surrey; Bray's diary was verified as authentic in September 2008.[6] This early form of the game was apparently brought to North America by English immigrants; rounders was also brought to the continent by both British and Irish immigrants. The first known American reference to baseball appears in a 1791 Pittsfield, Massachusetts, town bylaw prohibiting the playing of the game near the town's new meeting house.[7] By 1796, a version of the game was well-known enough to earn a mention in a German scholar's book on popular pastimes. As described by Johann Gutsmuths, "englische Base-ball" involved a contest between two teams, in which "the batter has three attempts to hit the ball while at the home plate"; only one out was required to retire a side.[8]
England. Not Canada. England. And we then improved it, making it the great sport that it is (or at least was until steroids).
I've tried English apple pie. It's not the same. Their crumble is nice, but we call that apple crisp.
Anyway, loads of individuals (and groups) have invented things in the states. Does that make them NOT American inventions? Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_inventions |
Yes NYC Gal I read the same thing on baseball too, hence my saying that it was an ENGLISH invention
Perhaps you could scan further down the article where it states that there was a version very close to the way we play it now ( very subtle differences) that originated in Ontario Canada. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| littlelisa wrote: |
Do you really associate these things as part of your identity? Seriously? Nobody I know does. Heck, who even watches/plays lacrosse? I don't even know how to play it. |
Lacrosse was a Native American game. I love the game. It wasn't only played in Canada. It was a North American game, and not exclusively Canadian (tribe-wise). My high school had a lacrosse team. I watched all the time.
@Seolio:
I focused on the Canadian bit. My bad. Still, American baseball is a vast improvement. It is American. Canada may have invented the modern version, but they didn't do anything with it. America did. |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Janny wrote: |
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| Imagine walking around a big city with a two litre jug of clamato juice and sitting it on a table in a pub just to show others one is different. |
When you're heading out to get drunk... who cares? Oh, right...you do.
BTW..clamato juice is awesome. Don't knock it.
I'm 100% sure the guy didn't give a chap about "showing others he's different"...he just wanted to pour clamato juice into their beer because it tastes great. Kudos to people who don't go around wondering "oh my God am I gonna look stupid carrying around my big bottle of clamato...?? Oh jeepers creepers!"
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| The longer I am away from canada the more I notice how similar the ideas that come out of canadians mouths are. This is true for most countries and it's funny to watch how the people think they have original ideas. |
I might substitute "America" for "canada" and "Americans" for "canadians" (noticed I used my capital letters to show respect through punctuation...HA MORE CANADIAN 'I'M SMARTER THAN YOU' BULLCFAP!!) Anyway, the substitutions would stand and this would ring true. "The people think they have original ideas"???? WTF are you talking about? You're just mocking everyone in Canada now on this narrow parameter of "creative thinking ability"? Think before you post, man.
| Quote: |
| Many canadians just have similar programing and its sad to see that people identify with their programing as being who they are. |
You have quite the crazy outlook there DD. However, I'm too tired to try to explain how stupid this sounds. HINT: Do YOU identify with your 'programming'? Answer that. |
No I spent long enough away from canada to tell the difference between who i am and what programing was just put in me. I still like some things canadian such as hockey but I do that out of choice not from conditioning.
One thing I notice is that many canadians just assume canada is the best without really questioning their conditioning. They smoke a lot of dope to entertain them in such a boring place where they are taxed to death and have little chance for quality of life.
Canada has its good points but I like pointing out the negatives to balance out the oh canada walking blind who think canada is heavan.
I just would cringe when I saw those travelers with canada kicks ass shirts on years ago. |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| littlelisa wrote: |
Do you really associate these things as part of your identity? Seriously? Nobody I know does. Heck, who even watches/plays lacrosse? I don't even know how to play it. |
Lacrosse was a Native American game. I love the game. It wasn't only played in Canada. It was a North American game, and not exclusively Canadian (tribe-wise). My high school had a lacrosse team. I watched all the time.
@Seolio:
I focused on the Canadian bit. My bad. Still, American baseball is a vast improvement. It is American. Canada may have invented the modern version, but they didn't do anything with it. America did. |
I know it's a Native American game. My point was that most Canadians, if asked, would not know much of the rules at all, or have seen a game, let alone played one. So does it really make sense to call it part of the Canadian national identity? I didn't mean that it was not a cool game or not worth watching. I just meant that most Canadians would be clueless about it, so it's not really something you can call Canadian. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| D.D. wrote: |
| No I spent long enough away from canada to tell the difference between who i am and what programing was just put in me. I still like some things canadian such as hockey but I do that out of choice not from conditioning. |
So, people can't choose to like Clamato juice? |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:51 am Post subject: |
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I just find it really tragic and laughable when people start quoting really quite mundane things as forming some special part of a national identity. To my mind it just further emphasises how banal some people/cultures have become.
In furtherance I'd say people, especially educated ones with degrees and who supposedly have some breadth of vision and intellect, should try and get over tub-thumping for national identities and realise that it's all codswallop in the end. Transcend such narrowness of vision and whathaveyou. |
This +1000
Canadians can be whiny somewhat nationalist dicks (especially when talking about the USA) but they can also be completely indifferent when it comes to identity. I know I am. I don't care what we invented or how we are different than the USA (with the exception of some tiny things we actually are pretty much the same thing). I actually find the entire world that has submitted itself to a global market economy to be pretty much the exact same thing believing in the same paradigm. DIfferences across cultures are miniscule now compared to the big picture and if a government wants to dupe its subjects into some nationalist fervor I would question their agenda. Nationalism or national identity is a bunch of rubbish. I believe that the sooner it is gone (which will probably never happen), the better the world will be. |
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D.D.
Joined: 29 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| D.D. wrote: |
| No I spent long enough away from canada to tell the difference between who i am and what programing was just put in me. I still like some things canadian such as hockey but I do that out of choice not from conditioning. |
So, people can't choose to like Clamato juice? |
How would an aussie look with a huge bottle of vegemite at a buffet breakfast to put on their toast. Of course one can choose anything as a usual canadian you read what I wrote with your logic rather than letting it sink in so you really got what I was pointing at.
I can tell the difference between a conditioned person and a free person in about 5 minutes of talking to them and most people including candadians fall into the first category. I like making fun of canadian conditioning and you will only take it personally if you identify with the stuff i make fun of. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Or... the guy just liked Clamato juice and wanted to share it with his friends.
But yeah, go on with your superior self. If you feel that somehow you're better than the majority of the population around the globe that are 'conditioned', and that your mind is somehow more free than theirs - all the power to ya.
But so far in this thread, your arguments are hypocritical at best. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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On the baseball thing. There were some elements of a Russian stick and ball game in the American version. Rounders is no doubt its grandfather but there were additions from other cultures.
Most Canadians I know seem to have a fairly strong sense of national identity. I think they feel Canada has taken a different way when it comes to world affairs and they feel it diferentiates them from other countries. I really dont even listen to the ones who want to berate me with tales of the avro arrow or the war of 1812 or other tripe. They are the most boring , obnoxious people on earth. I have great Canadian friends who are proud of their country and dont have to compare it against the U.S. or anywhere else. Those that do are little people with small minds. |
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Italy37612
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Somewhere
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| D.D. wrote: |
Many canadians just have similar programing and its sad to see that people identify with their programing as being who they are. |
You are aware you live and work in Korea?  |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| littlelisa wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| littlelisa wrote: |
Do you really associate these things as part of your identity? Seriously? Nobody I know does. Heck, who even watches/plays lacrosse? I don't even know how to play it. |
Lacrosse was a Native American game. I love the game. It wasn't only played in Canada. It was a North American game, and not exclusively Canadian (tribe-wise). My high school had a lacrosse team. I watched all the time.
@Seolio:
I focused on the Canadian bit. My bad. Still, American baseball is a vast improvement. It is American. Canada may have invented the modern version, but they didn't do anything with it. America did. |
I know it's a Native American game. My point was that most Canadians, if asked, would not know much of the rules at all, or have seen a game, let alone played one. So does it really make sense to call it part of the Canadian national identity? I didn't mean that it was not a cool game or not worth watching. I just meant that most Canadians would be clueless about it, so it's not really something you can call Canadian. |
It's actually fairly popular in the states. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
I just find it really tragic and laughable when people start quoting really quite mundane things as forming some special part of a national identity. To my mind it just further emphasises how banal some people/cultures have become.
In furtherance I'd say people, especially educated ones with degrees and who supposedly have some breadth of vision and intellect, should try and get over tub-thumping for national identities and realise that it's all codswallop in the end. Transcend such narrowness of vision and whathaveyou. |
This +1000
Canadians can be whiny somewhat nationalist dicks (especially when talking about the USA) but they can also be completely indifferent when it comes to identity. I know I am. I don't care what we invented or how we are different than the USA (with the exception of some tiny things we actually are pretty much the same thing). I actually find the entire world that has submitted itself to a global market economy to be pretty much the exact same thing believing in the same paradigm. DIfferences across cultures are miniscule now compared to the big picture and if a government wants to dupe its subjects into some nationalist fervor I would question their agenda. Nationalism or national identity is a bunch of rubbish. I believe that the sooner it is gone (which will probably never happen), the better the world will be. |
I take your +1000 and square it! |
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detourne_me
Joined: 26 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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My canadian pride came out just after the events of the past weekend. I'm seriously pissed about the erosion of human rights and freedoms in service to government spending and corporate interests.
Canadian politics have had profound global impacts - one of the many reasons why it is used so often as a host country for political summits - and seeing the terrifying raw footage of these freedoms being ignored is downright disheartening.
My girlfriend even noted "but you don't even like canada that much", i could only reply "yeah but i don't like seeing innocents trampled by horses even more." |
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noraebang
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Canadian national identity - from a curions American |
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| jhuntingtonus wrote: |
Canadians, what do you think? What sets aside Canadians from others? |
The Canadian identity is somewhat similar to the American identity but different in one important way: Canadians don't want to be what they see as too arrogant, too confident, too successful, and too self-assured.
For example, we have almost the same respect for business and entrepreneurship as America, but you'll frequently hear people say "I don't want to be too rich, that would mean I'm corrupt or whathaveyou."
In politics and foreign relations, Canadians often see themselves as having the virtues of America, being a free republican country, but not too arrogant or self-assertive (which is an elaboration on the main theme). A Canadian government would probably not to go to war unilaterally and without UN approval even if attacked in a devastating manner. That would somehow show "arrogance" of believing that we are right or have a right to defend ourselves without community input. Canadians are very focussed on international opinion.
Another thread within Canadian culture is that Canadians somehow believe they are very different than Americans and frequently play up those extremely superficial differences. Canadians believe these small differences between the two countries are what make them better than Americans. For example, going to almost every single war with the US but not going to the Iraq war. Having almost every single government welfare and entitlement program as the US but not having entirely socialized healthcare (American healthcare is only 75% socialized).
In reality (to the rest of the world and on an international comparison), politically Canadians are almost a carbon copy of the Americans, and you will find individual provinces that have a lot more in common with some American states than they do with other provinces, and visa versa. People like to claim Canada is a "socialist success" when it is rated as more capitalist on the economic freedom index than the US this year.
All of this is my opinion based on my (younger) generation and the people I know. I don't claim to know everybody in Canada, just the people who I associate with--I am a Canadian currently living in Canada. Personally I have a negative moral evaluation of the identity that I have written about above, but I don't want to get into it. If I were to live in any society it would be post Civil War to WWI America or ancient Greece at the time of Aristotle. I certainly admire the founding document of the United States much more than the Canadian constitution. |
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