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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| [qu Pashtun is native to Afghanistan and Pakistan, therefor it is indigenous to the region, there for I wouldn't consider it to be an invading force. . |
YOU maybe wouldn't consider it an invading force, but I think the Northern Alliance would have a radically different idea. Considering that they actually live there I think that's a better reference than a ten page paper.
http://www.zharov.com/afghan/taliban.html
According to this "in non-Pushtun areas they [the Taliban] were perceived as a foreign element."
So yes they were seen as an invading force by the locals. |
The link you gave me had a hammer and sickle at the top of it. Just thought that was funny. Anyways if you want to break it down to the level of warlords, which is what the Northern Alliance essentially is, then yes I suppose some sort of case could be made that they were a "foreign" element, but considering how many times land changed hands in the aftermath of the war against the USSR then most of the groups would have been considered invaders. What the Northern Alliance says about the Taliban can not be taken at face value, and neither can what the Taliban say about the Northern Alliance.
If you want to evolve your thinking beyond websites I recommend this book
Soldiers of God: With Islamic Warriors in Afghanistan and Pakistan By Robert Kaplan |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Ahmed Rashid's book about the rise of the Taliban is another good book on the subject.
And I'm not really clear on those of you arguing that the Taliban is a foreign invader. Say what? They're Pashtun. They are Afghans. Of course they weren't welcome in non-Pashtun areas (just like the Northern Alliance wouldn't be welcome in Kandahar). That's another reason why our presence there is so dumb: Afghanistan is basically an artificial country. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Ahmed Rashid's book about the rise of the Taliban is another good book on the subject.
And I'm not really clear on those of you arguing that the Taliban is a foreign invader. Say what? They're Pashtun. They are Afghans. Of course they weren't welcome in non-Pashtun areas (just like the Northern Alliance wouldn't be welcome in Kandahar). That's another reason why our presence there is so dumb: Afghanistan is basically an artificial country. |
Exactly. They were certainly not local/indigenous to the whole region which is what Mr. Leon was trying to argue before. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
Ahmed Rashid's book about the rise of the Taliban is another good book on the subject.
And I'm not really clear on those of you arguing that the Taliban is a foreign invader. Say what? They're Pashtun. They are Afghans. Of course they weren't welcome in non-Pashtun areas (just like the Northern Alliance wouldn't be welcome in Kandahar). That's another reason why our presence there is so dumb: Afghanistan is basically an artificial country. |
Exactly. They were certainly not local/indigenous to the whole region which is what Mr. Leon was trying to argue before. |
You must have a more specific definition of invader than me. They are indigenous to the country of Afghanistan. They are are Afghan, how they can invade Afghanistan is beyond me. All of the groups were fighting for Afghanistan. This started because I said that the United States were invaders, to compare the U.S. to the Taliban in terms of foreignness is inexplicable. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps the fact that much of the AFghan Taliban were born and raised in the refugee camps outside of Afghanistan would make them foreign, or the uzbek Chechen and Saudi component that aided them were foreign but this seems to be mostly an indigenous movement. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| I just dont see what the Taliban would have gain by sending a bomber to NeW York. Killing American civilians is not going to get N.A.T.O. to withdraw. Oh it is N.A.t.O. in AFghanistan they voted to invade , not the U.s. so plese be more accurate. It was a unanamous vote. So it is N.A.T.O. soldiers killing civilians. But there is a small distinction, their mission is not to kill civilians , the terrorist entire mission is to kill civililians. the failed bomber seems to be a man withsome mental health issues, who linked his living problems iwth the cause of the Taliban in his mind. The Taliban just does not seem that politically inept. they are close to getting a power sharing deal so would have a lot to lose with an action like this. If this plays out the way I think it will play out. the Taliban will be partners with the West in rebuilding AFghanistan. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| I just dont see what the Taliban would have gain by sending a bomber to NeW York. Killing American civilians is not going to get N.A.T.O. to withdraw. Oh it is N.A.t.O. in AFghanistan they voted to invade , not the U.s. so plese be more accurate. It was a unanamous vote. So it is N.A.T.O. soldiers killing civilians. But there is a small distinction, their mission is not to kill civilians , the terrorist entire mission is to kill civililians. the failed bomber seems to be a man withsome mental health issues, who linked his living problems iwth the cause of the Taliban in his mind. The Taliban just does not seem that politically inept. they are close to getting a power sharing deal so would have a lot to lose with an action like this. If this plays out the way I think it will play out. the Taliban will be partners with the West in rebuilding AFghanistan. |
I don't think that the Taliban will be partners with the west ever. They may be partners with Karzai though. |
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